View Full Version : spit shinning sealants
Can sealants be spit shined? I was under the impression they can`t.
JeffM
12-11-2005, 07:11 PM
I buy a selant that is pre spit shined right out of the bottle :)
Sherman8r44
12-11-2005, 07:15 PM
Well, spit shining is ACTUALLY a way to layer carnauba wax without having the solvents take off previous coats. I am assuming that by spit shining you mean using a QD to help remove residue? I have seen it done, but I think it is a bad idea because sealants need a cure time without coming in contact with liquid.
imported_Neothin
12-11-2005, 07:40 PM
sealants dont need to be spit shined. The only product that needs to be spit shined in order for it to layer is a carnauba wax. The reason for this is that solvents in the wax will dissolve previous layers of the wax and the new application won`t layer. If it is spit shined, they will. Sealants don`t need solvents seeing as they don`t have to be softened up to be applied like carnauba does. Because of this, just a regular application will allow sealants to layer. Just give them a 12-24 hour cure time before you apply additional layers.
Ed Fisher
12-12-2005, 06:03 AM
sealants dont need to be spit shined. The only product that needs to be spit shined in order for it to layer is a carnauba wax. The reason for this is that solvents in the wax will dissolve previous layers of the wax and the new application won`t layer. If it is spit shined, they will. Sealants don`t need solvents seeing as they don`t have to be softened up to be applied like carnauba does. Because of this, just a regular application will allow sealants to layer. Just give them a 12-24 hour cure time before you apply additional layers.
Yes, exactly what I was going to say; word by word... I agree 100%
The reason for this is that solvents in the wax will dissolve previous layers of the wax and the new application won`t layer.
Are you referring to paste or liquid, or doesn`t it matter?
Accumulator
12-12-2005, 09:15 AM
III- Doesn`t matter. Carnaubas generally don`t "cure" the way sealants do, so you have to worry about re-dissolving them. Sealants are pretty much impervious to this once they`ve cured and there`s no point in adding more *until* they`ve cured (spitshining won`t avoid the need for the cure time).
But even carnaubas cure pretty thoroughly after a few days. I like spit-shining, but I don`t do it every time I add more wax. With the pastes I`m using these days (#16, Collinite 476S) I don`t seem to need to spitshine if I wait a while between applications.
Where you *really* need to spitshine is when you`re building up wax all at one time, layer after layer in quick succession. That`s where the whole idea first came up, it` the same thing as when they spitshine shoes- it`s not like you put one coat of shoe polish on and then wait until the next day to add another, you need a way to build up a bunch of layers all at once.
Let me put a monkey wrench in this thread if I may.
I made the statement that I though sealants couldn`t be spit shinned because like 99% of us here, we know that sealants cross-link/cure. By me saying that, are we saying that carnaubas don`t cure then? I mean if carnaubas need to cure, how is it that waxes can be spit shinned, but sealants can`t?
I personally don`t have an answer if waxes need to cure. If I ask 5 people I`ll get 5 different answers. I heard it all. I`ve heard everything from waxes take longer to cure than sealants, to waxes don`t cure at all.
Carnaubas generally don`t "cure" the way sealants do, so you have to worry about re-dissolving them. Sealants are pretty much impervious to this once they`ve cured and there`s no point in adding more *until* they`ve cured (spitshining won`t avoid the need for the cure time).
But even carnaubas cure pretty thoroughly after a few days.
Ah, I was just going to ask this question before you posted. I was going to say that if carnaubas need to cure, why is it that sealants can`t, or isn`t recommended for spit shinning since these cure also? I think you answered my question though. In a nut shell you`re saying I wouldn`t gain anything if I spit shine a sealant right?
imported_Neothin
12-12-2005, 10:14 AM
correct. Just wait 12-24 hours between sealant layers and you`ll be fine.
Accumulator
12-12-2005, 10:47 AM
.. if carnaubas need to cure, why is it that sealants can`t, or isn`t recommended for spit shinning since these cure also? I think you answered my question though. In a nut shell you`re saying I wouldn`t gain anything if I spit shine a sealant right?
They both cure but it`s a different thing for each. Short version (chemists please excuse this :o and/or feel free to correct me) is that carnaubas simply harden as the solvents evaporate, thus fresh solvents can soften them up again; sealants cure in the sense of a major chemical change that`s pretty much permanent once it`s happened.
So with the sealants you just have to wait for this change to occur; you can`t alter what`s going on by spitshining.
imported_Neothin
12-12-2005, 10:52 AM
that has me wondering something. If you spit shine several layers of carnauba in short period of time, that kinda seals in the bottom layers from interacting with the atmosphere. Do the bottom layers of a spit shined carnauba combo ever have their solvents evaporate seeing as they are covered by the top layers?
They both cure but it`s a different thing for each. Short version (chemists please excuse this :o and/or feel free to correct me) is that carnaubas simply harden as the solvents evaporate, thus fresh solvents can soften them up again; sealants cure in the sense of a major chemical change that`s pretty much permanent once it`s happened.
So with the sealants you just have to wait for this change to occur; you can`t alter what`s going on by spitshining.
Thanks for clearing this up. Thanks also to all who responded so far. I understand now.
Accumulator
12-12-2005, 11:51 AM
that has me wondering something. If you spit shine several layers of carnauba in short period of time, that kinda seals in the bottom layers from interacting with the atmosphere. Do the bottom layers of a spit shined carnauba combo ever have their solvents evaporate seeing as they are covered by the top layers?
Realizing that I`m flying by the seat of my pants here, not having retained anything from my college chem courses :o IMO the bottom layers will be just fine. Given some time the wax will harden/cure even with other wax on top of it. It`s all about just not completely dissolving it when you`re building up the layers- you`re left with a thick coating (from numerous spitshined coats) of wax that`ll completely harden in a little while instead of a single thin coating (from just one coat or from having dissolved the previous one by applying too soon without the spitshining).
Example- take the wax out of the can and let it dry out on your workbench ;) The whole cake of wax will eventually turn into a brick, even the wax in the very center of it will be hard.
I`m :nervous: waiting for somebody who knows the science behind this stuff to say I`m all wet, but this is how it seems to work based on observation and experience.