Melting carnauba paste wax?

[scooch]

Has anyone ever melted a carnauba paste wax before? More specifically Natty`s? When I recieved my order of Natty`s it was broken in a few large pieces and a lot of smaller pieces...doesnt spread evenly and get small chunks on car. I was thinking of melting the wax and reforming it but I am wondering if the wax will loose any of its properties? I was planning on melting the wax over a double boiler slowly. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

[2wheelsx2]

If you do a search you`ll see that many have done so. Two issues. One is that you are dealing with an extremely flammable substance, so extra care must be taken. Two is that many here suggest that in reheating the wax, some of the chemicals may be flashed off and the wax will not retain all of its properties. I tried it with Mother`s pure carnauba once and there were no ill effects.



I think Scottwax tried it with P21S and Natty`s, mixing them together, or maybe it was #16.

[rollman]

There was a thread not long ago about combining different waxes . It was pretty interesting to read . You should have no proeblems melting it just becareful like the above post suggests.



:buffing:

[imported_memnuts]

Remember that a carnuaba wax is a blend of carnuaba (10-30%), exotic oils (gloss) and solvents (extremely volitile). Each component has an affinity to bond with itself. Heating to the point of melting will cause separation and re-formation of each component which will be different than the production version. In other words, there is a possibility of causing stratification (layers) of each component with the components with the higher molecular weight, most likely carnauba settling at the bottom, the solvents evaporating and the lighter weight exotic oils layering at the top. Application of this re-formed product will offer little or no protection until one reaches the bottom of the container and all application prior to reaching this strata is nothing more than glazing. The carnauba layer will offer protection but little appearance enhancement.



To rectify your brittle Natty situation use surface friction created by the applicator to soften and re-establish consistency of the product or use body heat (fingers) and rub on the upper surface of Natty`s. Eventually, you will re-establish a smooth upper layer that is self-renewing with each use.



Melting without using a proper admixture stimulation during re-solidification (stirring) will alter the wax blend from its original form.



If in doubt, take a small portion of this wax, place in a heat resistant glass tube and melt. This will demostrate the stratification of components. Take note of any odor that may be emitted during the heating/melting - volalite solvents. :eek:



Just some basic chemistry to maybe consider. :xyxthumbs

[wannafbody]

I`d just set your closed can of Natty`s out in the sun and let it melt together a bit.

[brwill2005]

I would send it back for a new can.

[scooch]

Thanks for all your replies everyone...I talked to Steve from Poorboys and here is what he had to say:



"just heated up until it melts in the double boiler....you can heat upto about 210* but I would stop as soon as it is all melted~185*.....then pour it back..let it cool out in open"



So i am going to give it a shot tomorrow.

[imported_COBRyan]

If in doubt, take a small portion of this wax, place in a heat resistant glass tube and melt. This will demostrate the stratification of components.



I did not notice this when I melted S100. :think:



The pics in this thread do not show this either:



http://autopia.org/forum/showthread.php?t=49008

[AL-53]

Why not just boil some water to a height of say 3/4 of the jar ..Turn off the heat then put the jar in the hot water and let it sit. Use a large pot so you will have more water area and will retrain the heat a bit longer...Also put a cover on the pot it while it sits to help retain heat also. Then when it liquifies then flash cool it in the fridge.



Just a thought..saves you from having a wax in a pot. plus no open flame during the process...



Hope this helps



Al

[imported_memnuts]

COBRyan,

I found that experiment to be quite interesting and the superficial appearance of the final solidified product appears quite normal. I did take note that Chris did stir his mixture (wood spoon) and if he did so during the whole process no macrostratification would be noted.



Two key points not discussed or analyzed. A cross-sectioning of the "new" product was not performed to look for stratification or product mottling.



Second, how were the volatile components re-constituted back into the formulation. These volatile components easily evaporate at normal ambient temperature (this is why a carnuaba mixture dries when applied to finish).

If these volatile components are "not" required in either of these formulations, Chris`s experiment just discovered how Meg and other VOC non-compliant products can be re-introduced simply by evaporating off this component if this new admixture minus VOC`s is as easy to use, durable as parent products and offer the same or better appearance enhancements.

Chris made a big mistake by going public. ;)

Obviously, this is not the case and elimination of VOC`s and maintaining original integrity is not that simple.



Where`s Mr. Chemist (Mother`s) when you need him. :(



Interesting discussion and experiment though. :xyxthumbs

[wannafbody]

well according to what collinite said(another post) 845`s new version is the same as the old with less solvent %

[scooch]

Hey everyone....melted the Natty`s yesterday in a double boiler (2.5 quart pot with a glass bowl on top). I constently mixed the wax in the bowl with a wooden spoon till it was all melted. Didnt take very long and it didnt take long to harden again. Color, smell, texture and application are all the same as before except I dont have all the little crumbled up chunks of wax now. :bigups

[lbls1]

I wouldn`t think that it would be a good idea. I`ve seen one post where someone did this. I am not sure whether your optical properties would be retained or negatively affected.

[imported_Intel486]

I hadn`t seen that other thread before and I`ve read a couple pages. Just cleaned out my supplies and wish I kept a couple old tins of wax so I could melt them all together just for the heck of it.



The big issue I`d see would be the evaporation of the solvent and possibly the oils, etc. they put in there. Under heat I`m not sure what all would evaporate but you can be certain the solvent is as most have a super low flash point. Like room temp. Most stuff I have seen uses a stoddard solvent (mineral spirits) as a solvent. Could probably replace some but the only thing to question would be the quality of mineral spirits you can get at a paint store.



I`d guess over a double boiler would be the safest route to go. Will provide a lot slower of a heat to the bowl.



I`m not sure stratification would be a big problem mainly because the product originally is probably not stirred while cooling. Probably injected into the containers as a liquid and let to harden.

[boybert00]

Thanks for all your replies everyone...I talked to Steve from Poorboys and here is what he had to say:



"just heated up until it melts in the double boiler....you can heat upto about 210* but I would stop as soon as it is all melted~185*.....then pour it back..let it cool out in open"



So i am going to give it a shot tomorrow.





i did my nattys this way and had no problems :xyxthumbs