View Full Version : Dressing difference between solvent and water based
Reflections1
07-02-2005, 03:34 PM
What is the difference between the two? Besides the obvious of their composition, what are the advantages and disadvantages of the two. Automagic makes several dressings and some are water and some are solvent based.
BigAl3
07-02-2005, 03:57 PM
i like and only use the white milky dressings as opposed to the clear/gel type (it slings for me). everyone has there preference....
Reflections1
07-02-2005, 04:07 PM
Thats what confuses me. I believe all but one dressing from Automagic are white and some are solvent and some are water based. I thought it might be that the water based can be diluted but Dress it right shouldnt be cut but others they make can. Even the solvent based I believe can be cut. I dont get it...LOL :nixweiss
Bill D
07-02-2005, 05:18 PM
White generally mean a PDMS ( polydimethysiloxane), water based dressing.
Alfisti
07-02-2005, 06:09 PM
http://autopia.org/forum/showthread.php?t=57754&highlight=PDMS
chml17l
07-02-2005, 06:13 PM
See my attached post here.
http://autopia.org/forum/showthread.php?t=57665&page=2&highlight=silicone
Alfisti
07-02-2005, 06:20 PM
Bill, we put up the same link. :D
Bill D
07-02-2005, 06:23 PM
Let me go back and delete......
Besides the obvious of their composition, what are the advantages and disadvantages of the two.
Water based dressings don`t last as long as solvent based dressings. However, they don`t contain any bad silicones or petroleum distillates which could harm vinyl/rubber like some solvent based dressings.
chml17l
07-02-2005, 06:47 PM
Water based dressings don`t last as long as solvent based dressings. However, they don`t contain any bad silicones or petroleum distillates which could harm vinyl/rubber like some solvent based dressings.
There is no such thing as "bad silicones". This is just a myth that has been perpetuated by vendors trying to claim their product is better because it does not contain the "BAD" silicone.
As a chemist, I am concerned when a particular chemical is "demonized" by the public due to a lack of understanding. Dimethly silicone is used in a wide range of chemical applications. Other uses include damping fluids, lubricants, and heat transfer fluids. It is chemically inert to most materials, stable at high and low temperatures, has a high oxidation resistance, and provides excellent lubricity.
Attached is a link to a great post by DetailKing quoting an article by DavidB on tires/rubber and the pro/cons of silicone vs. water-based dressings.
http://autopia.org/forums/showthrea...ot&pagenumber=1
I tried to locate David`s original article, but I was unsuccessful. I pretty much agree with everything stated in the quote.
My exceptions with the article are:
I know that UV protection can be added to a silicone-based dressing. It is mostly a matter of cost on the manufacturers part and not because of some deficiency in choosing to use silicone.
I agree that overexposure to petroleum distillates can be harmful to rubber, but if you use mineral spirits or some other low boiling solvent the contact time with the rubber is minimal and IMO would not cause any long term damage. Petroleum distillates are generally used as carrier agents for the active ingredients and the silicone when the dressing is sprayed from a pressurized can. The solvent evaporates and leaves the protective agents and silicone behind.
I agree the consensus here is to prefer water-based protectants like 303 over solvent-based protectants that contain silicone. I too like and use 303 for certain applications.
Water-based protectants definitely have a durability trade off when compared to solvent-based silicone protectants. Solvent-based protectants (like MSLT) can provide an ease of use aspect in that it is applied from a pressurized can with minimal overspray and doesn`t require wiping. Regarding solvent-based silicone vs. water-based tire protectants, you will probably end up replacing your tires long before any damage might be done to the tire. If you are still concerned about possible damage to rubber, stick with the water-based protectant.
It all comes down to really being more of a personal preference. Both have their advantages and it shouldn`t be turned into a silicone "BAD" water-based "GOOD" argument. :wavey
Bill D
07-02-2005, 07:08 PM
Yeah, the thing that may "most dangerous" about these dimethyl silicone based dressings are the hydrocarbon solvents that are used as the carrier.
I assume this is the same sort of chemistry a "Prepsol" type product has designed to remove waxes from paint.
As I understand it, the fear is these solvents can do the same thing to the UV and ozone blocking waxes added to tires by the manufactures. At least this is what I was told when I consulted Ron Ketcham.
That said, I`m unsure of the real world "severity" or "risk" such ingredients pose. This tidbit didn`t sound very good to me. It was just more food for thought .
chml17l
07-02-2005, 07:25 PM
Bill--
Agree that it is difficult to know from just reading a bottle/can if the solvent used is just listed as petroleum distillates. It could actually be mineral spirits, some other low boiling solvent, or something that may really be harmful to rubber, etc.
Bill D
07-02-2005, 07:30 PM
Oh yes, I definitely agree to that :up
Setec Astronomy
07-02-2005, 08:47 PM
As I understand it, the fear is these solvents can do the same thing to the UV and ozone blocking waxes added to tires by the manufactures. At least this is what I was told when I consulted Ron Ketcham.
Yeah, I forgot that was the one school of thought that the solvents don`t harm the rubber per se, but pull the anti-ozonants out of the rubber.
94BlkStang
07-02-2005, 09:21 PM
Yeah, I forgot that was the one school of thought that the solvents don`t harm the rubber per se, but pull the anti-ozonants out of the rubber.
I think it`s similar in nature to saying that drinking 20 cans of coke a day may cause cancer. Like I said, I have been putting it on a boat trailer tire for many years without any adverse effects. Most tires will simply wear out before any degredation is caused by the solvents as long as they are using the aliphatic hydrocarbon low boiling MS. The formula I was working with for a Car Brite distributor was 80% low aromatic MS or OMS and 20% DMF 350cs. A more recent forumula to keep cost down was 85% of MS and 15% of DMF 1000cs. Raw material cost for a solvent distributor is slightly over $3.00/gallon and a year ago was about $2.75/ gal. I sold the finished product without dye and fragrance for $3.75/gallon in a 330 gallon tote and my customer would repackage it into 5 gallon cans and 55 gallon drums. I believe he was reselling it for about $15.00/gallon in a five. I was definitely on the wrong end of the business. :D