So frustrated. About ready to toss my buffer!

[twasmer]

Hello



Long time reader here. Have not posted much due to nothing helpful to add :(.....Yet



Ok, I have read the forums and done searches. There is a ton of info but none really really fit my questions. I have tried some of this and some of that with very frustrating results.



I have a 01 BMW M5............Jet Black. The previous owner did not take the greatest care of the paint. I am trying to bring it back and it is frustrating the living daylights out of me.



Equipment:

Porter Cable Random Orbital

Snap-on rotary Buffer



Products

Automagic BC1

Automagic BC2

Mequires Swirl remover

Adams Butter Wax

Groits Garage 1 thru 3



Pads

Lake Country pads

***Orange

***Black

***White



Misc

Clay Magic Clay

Various Micro Fiber rags



The paint has scraches in it but none into the base coat etc. Spider webbing and some hazing.



I started by just working the trunk due to the size being small and workable. I cleaned with the clay. Started with an orange pad on the rotary and course Automagic. I dampend the pad with a spray of clay lube (as I read on this site to cut domw on skipping). And began to work in the product. And of course I could not keep the pad from hoping all over the place. I was on 5 and tried different speeds paying close attention to keeping the pad flat. The flatter the worse it skips. I had this issue before but after more reading I figured I could make it work. I tried a different pad firmness too. The product drys out fast and then the skipping begins.



After getting so frustrated I cut back over to the Porter Cable and although it does not skip the results are VERY slow to materialize. After 30min of working the trunk it was shiny but the scratches are still there.



What would be nice is a clear direction to take for a Black car AND a direct list of consumer attainable products. This board is great but sometimes it gives one a case of information overload.



I apprecite your input. I want a paintjob that is better than a 5 foot polish. From over 5ft it looks ok but you et any closer and to us car obsessed guys it looks like poop.



Thanks in Advance



Tim in Denver

[imported_themightytimmah]

Its hard for me to reccomend against the rotary for the majority of the cutting. The trick to keeping it from hopping is to mist the pad with QD as necessary to keep it lubricated. I`d use something like Meg`s #83 DACP via rotary with an orange pad to start. Follow up with Meg`s #9 via PC and white pad, then butter wet wax. Should do ya pretty good. I know how hard it is to get a neglected black car back to perfection, and it took me a long time (about 8 hours, Menzerna PG via cyclo then IP via cyclo then PO85RD via cyclo). And I still managed to miss a couple small spots :angry:.

[twasmer]

How often should I mist? At first I misted to much and it "watered" down the product. And it went splashing everywhere. Then I only used on spray and it would work for a short time.



I was wondering, do pads need to be broken in so to speak?

[Accumulator]

Nah, pads don`t need to break in. I`m not familiar with either the Automagic products or the Snap-On rotary, so I dunno what, if anything I can contribute here..I`d bet the "speed 5" is way too fast, stick with something around ~1,250 rpms.



Use enough product to keep the pad "wet", and yeah, priming the pad will help, but I`d use a QD like #34 instead of clay lube. Don`t use so much that you dilute the product, just enough to lessen the initial "grab" of a dry pad. I only prime the pad at first, then I rely on the product to keep it lubed. I use plenty of product (not overdoing it or anything either, though), more than with the PC that`s for sure. This does, of course, mean you have to clean the pad with a brush rather often and that you`ll have to contend with rotary-sling.



I don`t always keep the pads perfectly flat, but you sure don`t want to overdo any angling of them either. Don`t apply much, if any, pressure, let the product/pad do the work and don`t "fight" the rotary.

[the other pc]

If you`re using this Snap-On polisher (http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=yes&tool=all&item_ID=68325&group_ID=928&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog) the upper end of the speed dial is running about 3000 rpm, that`s way too fast. You probably need to keep it around the middle or lower to keep it in the 1200-1500 range where most products work best.



You also may be trying to work too large an area.





PC.

[rollman]

Don`t give up , I know it seems like its taking forever but stick with it . Perhaps you could get together with a fellow autopian in your area and get some help.



Detailing should be fun and enjoyable ,don`t let it frustrate you.

:buffing:

[6']['9]

i didnt even think you could use the BC polises with a rotory. Arent those cleaner polishes anyway your not going to get out swirl marks with those polishes. I just ordered their new syntheticut and swirl remover and theyre not too bad. any way when you use a buffer you kinda have to let the machine do the work on its own. I can tell you this i worked on a black 328 a few weekends ago that had swirls on it and it took more than 3mRC to remove it. I think i went over it once with the HiTemp heavy cut leveler then IP, then OCP and finished it with VM & EXP. But man even with a rotory those german finishes can be a *****

[MorBid]

when using the rotary do you over extend your reach? What size backup pad are you using?



Everyone who`s ever picked up a buffer has been where your at dude. Hang in there and you`ll get the hang of it.



You might want to get some 4" pads and work a small section trying different pad/polish combinations till you find your niche, that`s what I do when I`m in this type of situation.



One night I went out to the garage not with the idea "I`m going to polish the whole car" but "I`m going to find out which product does what with which pad".



The pro`s can work a badly marred panel into a piece of art in no time but they polish cars all day every day for years. The rest of us have to figure out what works for us.

[Alfisti]

Tim, its not hard for me to recommend against using a rotary. You`re not experienced enough to jump straight to a rotary - especially a rotary and polishes unfamiliar to most here (so they can`t assist you).



I`m not trying to citicise you, simply trying to prevent you burning through your paint. :D



If you want to practice, practice on a junk hood or something...your beloved car is not a practice vehicle for a rotary.



I would really suggest you get to master your PC first, then progress to the rotary. Using the PC, you`ll learn how polishes work, and you`ll do it safely. Yes, it`ll be slow, but it`ll work. You`re not in a race, so be patient with the tools you have and you`ll love the results.



I`m not familiar with the brand of polishes you mentioned but they sound as though they may be too mild to remove swirls.



Use your PC and a medium-level polish similar to #83, SSR2.5, IP or PowerPolish. If you want to stick with the brand you`re using, that`s fine...but it needs to be aggressive enough to do the job.

[jetskie]

I agree that you don`t seem experienced enough to use a rotary since you are using speed 5 and its hopping all over the place. Since you already done the damage which IMO is rotary swrils you need to go back to the PC get get pretty agressive. Use the strongest Griotts polish and use the orange pad, but you may want to get a yellow one for extra cut. Work in small area spreading the product at speed 3 quickly with the PC then work in the product at speed 5 with a slow arm speed moving it 1-2 inches per second. Work it in until the product looks greasy or tranparent then wipe off and inspect. Repeat as needed. They you want to reapeat the process with the next step down or use a final polish depending on how much hazing is left with a white pad. Then you should be ready for your wax.

[the other pc]

[`9"]i didnt even think you could use the BC polises with a rotory. ...Good point, worth looking up...



...from Auto Magic`s website (http://www.automagic.biz/polishes.htm):



"BC-1â„¢ Basecoat/Clearcoat Cleaner is the first step in removing oxidation, scratches and other paint imperfections from clearcoat and conventional paint finishes

May be applied by hand, orbital buffer, or variable speed polisher. Works well with wool

or foam cutting pads."



"BC-2® Basecoat/Clearcoat Finish is the second step in reviving the original beauty to clearcoat and conventional paint finishes.

May be applied by hand, orbital buffer, or variable speed polisher. Works well with wool

or foam pads."





I presume when they say " variable speed polisher" they mean " variable speed rotary polisher"



Both BC-1 and BC-2 are listed under the overall heading of "medium" on Auto Magic`s "abrasive meter".





PC.