Zymol/Swissol

[AndyC_1]

OK, I met 2 people yesterday, one a Zymol retailer and the other Swissol. Zymol guy didn`t say much about the product/process BUT the Swissol chap was to put it mildly scathing about pretty much everything I use.



I outlined my current product lines and preferences and his comment was "well now you can step up a level as Swissol will beat them all" - fair comment and I guess he`s fairly biased (after all, he is trying to sell the stuff) but on reading more, it appears that both Zymol & Swissol make the following claims.



1. Their carnuabas will last months - using "proper" application, they can/will both last up to 6 months without any reduction in performance.



2. Their pre-cleaners hide swirls, not remove. It does appear that their cleaners are mild polishes as opposed to swirl removers (SSR/Menzerna)



3. Swirl removal is bad - hiding them is the way forward. Maybe a sweeping statement but this is what their marketing literature appears to say



4. They have the highest carnuaba content available. There`s the usual "carnuaba in its purest form is solid, like concrete" but their brochures seem to suggest that "all" other carnuabas contain very little carnuaba by comparison and as a result will not match the final result - so is my Souveran no good then?



5. "Natural" products - I can`t say if this is factually correct as I`m no chemist but does automotive paint contain anything found in nature? I can`t understand this obsession with natural products - or is it a way of persuading people to part with large sums of money??



Now I don`t want to start a flame war as I know there are Zymol/Swissol zealots around (esp in the UK) but I left this guy feeling somewhat deflated as he shot my processes and product choices down completely - sneered at Souveran and pretty much refused to speak to me when I mentioned how pleased I was with SRP via PC results ("don`t you realise how much DAMAGE Autoglym stuff does to your paint??!!")



Now maybe this guy was simply very loyal to Swissol (like I said earlier he`s a retailer) but what is the general consensus about these particular lines? I have to say I/m tempted to try the Swissol route (cleaner, wax) just to see if he was maybe right but after understanding from autopia that technique/process are the crucial factors as opposed to product, I`m looking for some moral support in a way.



Zymol/Swissol - Yes please or no thanks and a short reason why.

[imported_lix]

No thanks.



I have a pot of Swissol, whatever their cheapest is in the range (it was bought for me as a gift). Whilst I like the results and find it very slick, I wouldn`t buy again as I don`t think it`s worth the premium. I just don`t see any major improvement over some of the other products on the market at half or a third of the price. However, I found it to be quite durable for a carnauba topper and it does smell nice!



For me, there`s also too much fluffy marketing surrounding the product; I mean special formulations for Japanese and German paints?! Reminds me of the saying "a fool and his money..." You also see this type of FUD in the high end Hi-Fi industry with expensive mains leads and interconnects. I think this is the primary reason for zealotry. Not many people will spend in the region of £80 for a kit, then say it wasn`t superior :)

[AndyC_1]

Thanks lix - that`s kind of what I was saying albeit in my usual longwinded way! I`m also guessing that many people have "graduated" from OTC products (i.e. Halfords etc) straight to what is without doubt a premium product range and rave about it.



I was/am sceptical about the range of "different" waxes for Italian/Japanese cars too as having detailed a few cars from different countries I can`t say I found any major differences in terms of LSP result.

[Lowejackson]

As someone who does use expensive HiFi interconnects, commercial philosophy turns me off. To my mind it is fine for a firm to claim their products are good but it always worries me when they criticise the competition.



The whole OTC is interesting, I moved away from Autoglym a few years ago and started using Zaino and Klasse etc and these days I am happy with SRP with the PC

[the other pc]

Originally posted by AndyC_1

OK, I met 2 people yesterday, one a Zymol retailer and the other Swissol. .... it appears that both Zymol & Swissol make the following claims.




Originally posted by AndyC_1

1. Their carnuabas will last months - using "proper" application, they can/will both last up to 6 months without any reduction in performance. Can they back that up with hard data? Not that anybody really can.




Originally posted by AndyC_1

2. Their pre-cleaners hide swirls, not remove. It does appear that their cleaners are mild polishes as opposed to swirl removers (SSR/Menzerna)



3. Swirl removal is bad - hiding them is the way forward. Maybe a sweeping statement but this is what their marketing literature appears to say I guess some people must like having little grooves in their paint. It`s a legitimate personal choice I suppose.




Originally posted by AndyC_1

4. They have the highest carnuaba content available. There`s the usual "carnuaba in its purest form is solid, like concrete" but their brochures seem to suggest that "all" other carnuabas contain very little carnuaba by comparison and as a result will not match the final result - so is my Souveran no good then? Whether you have a gram of carnauba in 10ml of paste or in 1000ml of paste after you apply it you only have a microscopic fraction of a gram left on the surface. Has anybody ever correlated % content as being the most important indicator of performance? No. You know your Souveran works and works great because you`ve used it, not because of sales hype.




Originally posted by AndyC_1

5. "Natural" products - I can`t say if this is factually correct as I`m no chemist but does automotive paint contain anything found in nature? I can`t understand this obsession with natural products - or is it a way of persuading people to part with large sums of money?? There are lots of benefits to natural products. Protection performance of engineered synthetic polymers is not necessarily one of them. (Zymol insists that you rub their products on with your bare hands. If I were doing that I`d probably prefer a natural product. Then again, Arsenic, snake venom and badger excrement are natural products.)




Originally posted by AndyC_1

Now I don`t want to start a flame war as I know there are Zymol/Swissol zealots around (esp in the UK) but I left this guy feeling somewhat deflated as he shot my processes and product choices down completely I haven`t encountered any Z/S zealots around here. Some enthusiastic users, yes. But I`ve found Autopians to be a reasonable lot (for a bunch of obsessive compulsives ;) ). He can shoot at your processes and product choices but only you can decide if they`re down or flying high.




Originally posted by AndyC_1

- sneered at Souveran and pretty much refused to speak to me when I mentioned how pleased I was with SRP via PC results ("don`t you realise how much DAMAGE Autoglym stuff does to your paint??!!") Ask him exactly why that is (and ask him where he got his phd in polymer chemistry). I`ll bet you get a similarly "religious" response.




Originally posted by AndyC_1

Now maybe this guy was simply very loyal to Swissol (like I said earlier he`s a retailer) but what is the general consensus about these particular lines? I have to say I/m tempted to try the Swissol route (cleaner, wax) just to see if he was maybe right but after understanding from autopia that technique/process are the crucial factors as opposed to product, I`m looking for some moral support in a way.



Zymol/Swissol - Yes please or no thanks and a short reason why. It would be interesting/fun to try it out but I wouldn`t bother if I had to:

a) spend a lot of money and/or time to do it

or

b) deal with goofballs like the one you describe.





PC.

[lbls1]

I haven`t tried swissol. I have been using my chosen brand of Zymol for two years so far. I have had nothing but excellent results from it. It is the only carnauba that I will trust with car #1.

[BottleHead]

I have yet to even see any Swissol product, much less use one. Therefore, I cannot speak to anything Swissol-related. However, as I am sure many hereabouts have noticed from threads elsewhere, I am a big fan of Zymol.



I will not go so far as to claim it better than anything else to be had. But then, I`d not make such a statement about any other product line either.



I will state that I have used Zymol on a number of different vehicles over the past then years, give or take. I have been thoroughly happy with the results I have seen throughout that period. And, while it is clear that Zymol has become the local whipping boy for many hereabouts, I will say that I have attained results with some Zymol products which would easily rival Souveran...and last far longer.



In particular, the Zymol "Titanium" (which they market as an SUV wax) has afforded me a wet shine that was very impressive and would last (with appropriate washing and post-wash QD`ing) on the order of months (two, without question.....more in most cases).



It is clearly more work (a lot, at times) than Souveran to apply. And must be applied properly (no...it doesn`t have to be applied by palm and fingers as implied by the company). Indeed, the first time I tried it....I was sure I hated it. When I finished, my feelings were `Well....going to have to spend the whole day tomorrow stripping this crap off and re-doing the whole vehicle."



To my surprise, though, after allowing it to cure I was bowled over by the deep wet gloss shine it had. A light buffing with an MF at that point finished it off nicely.



No....I won`t call it the best thing ever to grace automotive paint. But....I have found precious few waxes to prove themselves better.



As for the claims of natural ingredients, nearly all Zymol products are probably the best smelling I have ever found. Between the coconut and the banana oils (along with whatever else that is in there), I always feel like a huge blender of Pina Coladas by the time I finish a car with them. A good thing in and of itself, I say.



That in mind, a fellow I know once told me that he kept all of his Zymols in the fridge when not in use. As I always have at least one empty drawer in mine, I have followed suit. They do appear to keep better that way, I`ll admit. YMMV, of course on this matter.



I have used Creame, Carbon, Titanium, and Concours, and would not hesitate to recommend any of them to someone else. The latter two most especially.





....BH

[Brazo]

I won`t knock either products but I think we all know there is better out their for cheaper.



I always get concerned when other companies knock their competitors products, yes you will always get some rivalry but to say they damage your paint or are very poor isn`t a positive thing in my mind. I used to be a meguiars only guy and still use them a lot but now that I have ventured into klasse et al I can see there is a lot of good products out there in the market.



I think zymol and swissol would make a great wax topper but tell could you tell it apart from say #16? Apart from after a few weeks when the zymol or swissol has washed off ;-) no!



Andy the guy from swissol was he called Tony? There is a guy on Seatcupra.net called Tony who sells/markets swissol and he comes out with all the crap that you mentioned in numbers 1 to 5 in your first post!

[lbls1]

I think one would actually have to try and compare either one of those to really determine if its better than the leading waxes out there, instead of relying solely on heresay or even published tests.



I have yet to experience a product that could render quite the same way that a Zymol can, but that`s my opinion as well.

[Flatfour]

Same here with Swissol wax...

(I ordered some stuff in the autopia shop, so a compairason is lurking)

[buzzb]

I haven`t use either but before you drop hundreds of dollars wondering if they are better, they have been tested before (Zymol at least) in guru reports. http://www.gurureports.org/specialreports/waxtest.1.html

I might recommend spending $10 on this report first, just as a guideline, then deciding if it`s worth it to test for yourself. Just trying to help!

[SilverLexus]

I used several of the high end Zymol waxes and was just not impressed. I found I got could get better results for less with P21S and Souveran.



My impression is that Zymol is a triumph of grass roots marketing at car shows. One indication of this is that Ralph Lauren`s collector car fleet manager switched to Pinnacle Souveran from a Zymol formulated just for his car.



You can get a whole Total Car Care kit from Pinnacle with Souveran for the amount you would spend on a higher end jar of Zymol wax. And it smells better too!

[benpocock]

I used Zymol a few years ago and was over the moon with the results, but then when I ran out of the shampoo and could no longer justify £32 on a bottle of it, I starting switching to Meguiar`s. I haven`t used Zymol since - not because their products don`t yield good results, but I`ve achieved equivalent if not better results with products that cost far less. I also find the Zymol cleaner (HD-Cleanse) very difficult to use and putting carnauba on with your fingers is simply ridiculous!



I`ve never knocked Zymol for its performance; I just get bored of getting fed all the marketing crap that tells me anything else will damage my paint.



Put #16 or Natty`s in a "medical grade pot", charge people a stupid amount of money for it and tell them to apply it with their fingers and it will sell just as well as Zymol does. IMO it is a pure triumph of marketing. There are far too many people in this world that believe just because something is the most expensive it must be the best.



Ben.