Swirl marks are not possible to remove with PC

[imported_Axe]

Hi everyone,

Pretty hefty subject don`t you think? :) OK here it is, I was about to reply to somebodyâ€â„¢s thread relating to removing swirls from a 7 series Beemer. When constructing my reply I realised I was making a statement that I would like your opinions on, so I created this thread. It might prove to be a little controversial but hey :)



I find that spider webbing / swirl marks on *most* vehicles almost impossible to remove completely (Sunshine test) - I have tried DACP IP IzPP Sonus FX1 and many other and some stronger products; using a PC they simply do not touch spider webbing / swirl marks.



I don`t know but, I think a lot of the time people get a tad carried away with their `results`. When pressed, most people will admit that in fact the swirls aren`t totally gone (meaning they haven`t really gone at all) and they are being `slightly` over ambitious in what they perceive as their results. For example itâ€â„¢s amazing how many times the `after` picture is never under the same light or the same angle - even though the job may be done in a garage with lights. (It`s rather difficult to get the same shot outside)



This can make swirl removal a frustrating business with a PC (or Cyclo come to that) because so and so said they got all their swirls out using the PC and IP etc, as you tend to think why canâ€â„¢t I?



I am fast becoming a believer that these DA type tools are not good enough for paint correction (Swirl / spider web removal) on `most` vehicles (I am sure that some vehicles/manufacturers will have soft enough paint that paint correction is possible with a DA). I think the only real swirl removal solution, which I would be loathed/afraid/unskilled to do, is go with a rotary and IP or DACP as I am sure that the heat generated by these devices is what really matters in paint correction.



Because this thread was based on a reply to someone else`s thread, it was refreshing to see someone actually posting saying that SSR2.5 (or whatever) and their PC could not remove swirls, it made me realise that perhaps I am not alone with these thoughts and frustrations; I await your informed opinions and discussion :)



EDIT: Just realised this might be more appropriate in the `Machine Polishing` forum, even though I am discussing the use of products also, MODS please move if you feel it necessary, thanks.

[m4xmw]

I think a rotary is the way to go, if eliminating swirls is the aim.

I have to say I can significantly reduce swirls with my PC and SSR2.5.

I reckon on a 70%+ improvement.



Mark

[TW85 HHI]

I think your statement is false. I have worked on cars with constant lighting (garage) and my PC, combined with the proper operating speed, pads, product, and working pattern, has indeed removed significant swirling and marring. The only swirls or scratches that were left behind were the ones that could be felt with my nail.



Granted, the PC may not cut it (no pun intended) on certain paints such as Audi and Mercedes` CeramiClear, but to say the PC will not remove defects from most cars is simply a false statement.

[imported_Axe]

m4xmw - yes reduce possibly (although how would you measure that?) but not *remove*, and thats the thing.

[a.k.a. Patrick]

I just removed rotary induced swirls from a Porsche last week....Completely.

[m4xmw]

Axe, if you are after 95%+ reduction in swirls, a multi day detail session may be whats needed.

Ive managed to almost remove the swirls on my Impreza.

Im not going to chase the dream of a swirl free car ,as it then becomes unusable as a daily driver.

(wouldnt want to mark it)



Mark,

[Bill D]

I see it depending on three important factors:



hardness of the paint

polishes and pads used

*user`s experience and technique



Same holds true for machine polishing in general.

[AMP01]

Axe,



I used to own a 1999 jet black 740iL and when I got it, it had some pretty good swirls. I finally used my PC with a wool pad and #83 and or IP. Every swirl cam out.



Here is a pic of my former 740iL.





http://autopia.org/gallery/data/500/2805on_the_way_to_bimmerfest_for_web_4-12-03-med.jpg



I now own a 2001 740i Sport - This time in titanium metallic - much easier to take care of! :D



I hope this helps!



Cheers,

[JaCkaL829]

I think as others said it depends on the paint and how hard or soft it is. I don`t know if its coincidence but everytime I do a family member`s car which are all Ford vehicles, I can never get it absolutely perfect, I still get very light swirls only seen in the sun. I have used the same process and products on two different civics that were both in pretty bad shape and was confident that I completely removed all the swirls. I believe Honda has pretty soft paint so removing defects is pretty easy, only drawback is its much easier to mar the paint.

If your that unhappy with the remaining swirls left why not upgrade to rotary? To me i`d rather live with a small percentage of swirls remaining or just use a glaze to fill them, then to potentially damage or burn anyone elses or my car`s finish.

[chevyguy28]

I voted "yes" because it is possible to remove them completely, but of course it depends on the car and how bad it is. True that the answer with a rotary will be "yes" much more of the time, but even it has it`s limitations (cars that need repainting for example). So to vote "occasionally" would be misleading IMO.



Regardless of the semantics of it, I don`t think you will see many "no" votes.

[saling4]

I am a complete rookie at this, but I can say that on my 88 Ford Ranger (250,000 miles and my daily work driver 100 miles a day) I almost completely removed the swirls. It is a work on progress as I try new products and techniques. I feel that even though it may not be 100% it is WAY better than most cars (Autopians excluded of course).



Brian

[togwt]

Originally posted by Bill D

I see it depending on three important factors:



hardness of the paint

polishes and pads used

*user`s experience and technique



Same holds true for machine polishing in general.



:xyxthumbs :xyxthumbs



As a suggestion use a 4-inch foam pad to `concentrate` the abrasion of the foam/polish, with enough passes you will be able to remove 90% of surface imperfections-the balance is in the hands holding a HS rotary

JonM

[Accumulator]

I voted "occasionally" because there are situations where you *can* do it and situations where you *cannot*. I`ve experienced both first hand (and yes, when I say "completely removed" I mean it, in all lighting). FWIW, most of the time, when I`ve been successful with the PC/Cyclo, it has taken many, many hours of work. Far more than one hour per panel, that`s for sure.



But yeah, IMO most people might have unrealistic expectations as to what they can accomplish with a PC, at least until they`ve tried it a few times and found out what is/isn`t possible with their paint/products/technique.