View Full Version : Typical polymer discussion... Need some info
ExplorerXLT95
03-15-2005, 08:08 AM
A discussion was occuring on another board and I wanted to make sure that I had my information right before responding. The discussion was about polymers being bad for your paint because of the old "polymers don`t let the paint breathe" argument. I know this isn`t right, but I can`t quite remember why other than the fact that the paint does not breathe. Here`s the quote:
Other person`s claim
In all actuality it doesn`t protect better, it harms your paint a lot more! Your paint surface needs to breathe and thats something a synthetic hampers.
I remember seeing this discussed numerous times, but I can not remember where.
Any rebuttal information for me, ladies and gents?? :nixweiss
Thanks in advance :xyxthumbs
togwt
03-15-2005, 08:29 AM
quote:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Other person`s claim
In all actuality it doesn`t protect better, it harms your paint a lot more! Your paint surface needs to breathe and thats something a synthetic hampers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Like most myths there is some truth to it.
When a surface is newly painted the paint requires a certain amount of time to dry and for the paint to cure (outgas) consequently nothing should be placed over the paint to hinder this process. To protect the surface while this process is taking place certain glazeÃâ‚â„s are said to be Ãâ‚Ëœnew paint safeÃâ‚â„ as they will allow the paint to Ãâ‚Å“breatheÃâ‚Â (another word for outgas)
A Ãâ‚Ëœre-paintedÃâ‚â„ surface is porous and does need protection, during the outgas process a glaze does offer limited protection and once the paint is fully cured, usually a 30 day period, a wax or sealant can be applied.
New cars with OEM water based paint are cured at high temperatures, sometimes as high as 300 degrees in special baking ovens and can be waxed the moment it is rolled out of the manufacturing plant. New cars go through the painting and baking process without any of the rubber, plastic, and cloth components installed. This is why they can expose the cars paint to such high temperatures. These high temperatures and special paints used at the factory level ensure the paint is fully cured (the outgas process is complete) by the time the car leaves the assembly line.
As fully cured (out gassed) paint doesn`t need to breathe so a polymer sealant will do no harm (it can`t be suffocated ;)) but is in fact the most durable protection for a paint surface.
JonM
ExplorerXLT95
03-15-2005, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by TOGWT
quote:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Other person`s claim
In all actuality it doesn`t protect better, it harms your paint a lot more! Your paint surface needs to breathe and thats something a synthetic hampers.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Like most myths there is some truth to it.
When a surface is newly painted the paint requires a certain amount of time to dry and for the paint to cure (outgas) consequently nothing should be placed over the paint to hinder this process. To protect the surface while this process is taking place certain glazeÃâ‚â„s are said to be Ãâ‚Ëœnew paint safeÃâ‚â„ as they will allow the paint to Ãâ‚Å“breatheÃâ‚Â (another word for outgas)
A Ãâ‚Ëœre-paintedÃâ‚â„ surface is porous and does need protection, during the outgas process a glaze does offer limited protection and once the paint is fully cured, usually a 30 day period, a wax or sealant can be applied.
New cars with OEM water based paint are cured at high temperatures, sometimes as high as 300 degrees in special baking ovens and can be waxed the moment it is rolled out of the manufacturing plant. New cars go through the painting and baking process without any of the rubber, plastic, and cloth components installed. This is why they can expose the cars paint to such high temperatures. These high temperatures and special paints used at the factory level ensure the paint is fully cured (the outgas process is complete) by the time the car leaves the assembly line.
As fully cured (out gassed) paint doesn`t need to breathe so a polymer sealant will do no harm (it can`t be suffocated ;)) but is in fact the most durable protection for a paint surface.
JonM
Informative as always, Jon. Thanks a bunch.
Keep the info coming, people :xyxthumbs
Lowejackson
03-15-2005, 08:43 AM
It is hard to add anything more. Fully cured paint does not and cannot breathe
ExplorerXLT95
03-15-2005, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by Lowejackson
It is hard to add anything more. Fully cured paint does not and cannot breathe
Basically just looking for good rebuttal information at this point.
Jon`s post more than suffices, was just welcoming others to throw in their input :xyxthumbs
Lowejackson
03-15-2005, 09:05 AM
If paint needed to breathe and for 40 or 50 years people have been using Autoglym, Carlack (Klasse), Meguiars etc would there not be a significant number of legal claims against these firms for selling products which may damage the paint.
RedondoV6
03-15-2005, 10:03 AM
Jon pretty much said it all ...not a problem on new cars or aftermarket paint jobs that have cured for sufficent time.
imported_memnuts
03-15-2005, 10:33 AM
Post Jon`s remarks. Excellent explaination with zero gaps for augument. :bow
opass
03-15-2005, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by TOGWT
quote:
When a surface is newly painted the paint requires a certain amount of time to dry and for the paint to cure (outgas) consequently nothing should be placed over the paint to hinder this process. To protect the surface while this process is taking place certain glazeÃâ‚â„s are said to be Ãâ‚Ëœnew paint safeÃâ‚â„ as they will allow the paint to Ãâ‚Å“breatheÃâ‚Â (another word for outgas)
A Ãâ‚Ëœre-paintedÃâ‚â„ surface is porous and does need protection, during the outgas process a glaze does offer limited protection and once the paint is fully cured, usually a 30 day period, a wax or sealant can be applied.
As fully cured (out gassed) paint doesn`t need to breathe so a polymer sealant will do no harm (it can`t be suffocated ;)) but is in fact the most durable protection for a paint surface.
JonM
Does it require more than 30 days for repaint to completely cure if the car without cover is stored in the garage 90% of the time at Southen california where have low humidity?
a.k.a. Patrick
03-15-2005, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by blkZ28Conv
Post Jon`s remarks. Excellent explaination with zero gaps for augument. :bow
Edwin I fig`d you and Jon would have complete explanations....Sure you cant add to Jons reply? (Thorough as usual :bow )
imported_memnuts
03-15-2005, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by a.k.a. Patrick
Edwin I fig`d you and Jon would have complete explanations....Sure you cant add to Jons reply? (Thorough as usual :bow )
LMAO!!! Patrick
I was quite disappointed. I could not add a single letter. Jon`s explaination was so complete, thorough, accurate and well structured. :xyxthumbs
the other pc
03-15-2005, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by opass
Does it require more than 30 days for repaint to completely cure if the car without cover is stored in the garage 90% of the time at Southen california where have low humidity? The 30 day period is generally considered the minimum. You also hear recommendations for 60 to 90 days as well. (As an aside, back in the eighties a PPG rep told me he thought six months to a year was a good idea.)
I would think that temperature has the most effect. Re-spray finishes are not water based so humidity won`t be the driving factor. Being in So. Cal. would therefore help keep the wait toward the lower end due to the moderate temperatures (unless you were up in Big Bear, Idyllwild, etc (although I have seen it snow in Irvine!)). On the other hand, keeping the car indoors would tend to extend the period because the surface temperature isn`t elevated by solar heating.
So wait at least the 30 days before waxing (or sealing or whatever) a new re-spray finish. Go ahead and wash, polish/glaze it until then (as long as you use paintshop-safe products).
PC.
Horseman2475
03-15-2005, 12:41 PM
Just had fiberglass hood painted. What would be the best polish/glaze to put on it?
wannafbody
03-15-2005, 05:04 PM
i`d say Megs #5
Accumulator
03-15-2005, 06:02 PM
ExplorerXLT95- If they try to bust your chops even after TOGWT`s (great) explanation, you could just ask them to defend *their* position. Whence came this "paint breaths" idea of theirs? None of that "everybody knows..." stuff, ask for actual, verifiable (and timeframe relevant- we`re talking about *today`s* paints) info from accepted sources of "expert knowledge" in this field, such as paint manufacturers or chemists.
Don`t let them generalize from the specific "curing period outgassing" thing (inappropriate/incorrect use of inductive reasoning is a favorite tactic of some people ;) ).
Once upon a time, many paints *did* "breath" and they required different maintenance regimens from what we use today, but where automotive paint is concerned, that hasn`t been true for a very, very long time. Things change....
Originally posted by wannafbody
i`d say Megs #5
Me too, that`s my favorite for this. You could also use Meg`s #3/#7/#81 or 3M IHG or Mother`s Glaze.