Beading = Durability

[JaredPointer]

I was once a believer in the thought that if water beaded on the paint surface, wax was doing it`s job and protection was there. Now that I have done a little more reading and I don`t necessarily believe anymore that beading = protection, what`s some ways to see if our sealants/waxes are still present & doing what they`re supposed to do? How can Joe Sixpack know if a sealant is still present if the car is/is not beading? Are there any "tests" to prove that these protectants are still there 1 or 2 months after appliction? Or is my thought that beading does not equal protection wrong? If I recall correctly I remember someone saying here that just beacause a wax does/does not bead doesn`t mean that it`s working. What`s the everyday man`s way to know when protection is needed if you can`t tell by looking at it? Do we just have to rely on what the mfgs tell us? Since the general consensus of most people is water beading = protection, can we dispell this myth/rule? Thanks!!

[kimwallace]

You just opened a big ole can of worms with this one.
My own personal rule of thumb is ... when my QD stops being easy to use, I feel the wax or sealant protection is gone. Nothing scientific, but that is what I use.

[usdm]

I am not sure we will ever get a solid answer to this question. But this
is what was told to me by someone else:

"The question of sheeting or beeding as a test. I would look to
surface tention as a test. If contaminates are unable to easily
adhere to the finish you have low surface tention. If they adhere
easily you have high surface tention. In the later you have insufficient
protection for your finish. If you have a properly protected finish
contaminates should easily wipe or wasy away when washing or using
one of your express detail products."

[JaredPointer]

Thank you kimwallace...that`s all I`m really looking for is everyday answers to this question, so I don`t fall into the pit of relying solely on beading as an indicator of product longevity and presence.

[Beemerboy]

I think that we all think that if the water is beading that we have protetion. Most of this I think comes from ad`s you see on TV, the guys washing his car and the water is beading up so that equals protection. I agree with KIM on this one, once the surface starts to feel sluggist (sp) I then think that the surface is ready for another application.

I have run a thread about this in the passed about clear coats and the false sence that the paint is protected. Of what I have seen even a car that has not been waxed in some time will still bead some with a clear coat. I know we all here know better than that but to the lamen that is not the case.

[dalmore]

I feel comfortable in saying that beading does not equal protection. For proof I point to your parking lot at work the next time it rains. For those of you in small enough companies, you`re parked near the same cars day after day and you know which cars are neglected. Look at them and I`ll bet good money that some if not all of them are beading to some degree.

As far as what does work as a gauge - beats me. I do know that a waxed/protected car is easier to wash. Other than that... :dunno

[HondaMan]

If it`s still got sealant, then when washed, it should "feel" somewhat smooth and not rough. I agree with the "low vs. high surface tension" description. A smooth surface is low tension; rough one (either dirty after washing or needs to be clayed) equals high surface tension.

Light dust and dirt storms are a good test, though we can`t replicate them. I washed my mothers`s car and she took it to the beach (sand, dirt, etc)....car came back FILTHY as if someone had dumped buckets of dirt just before she pulled up the car on the driveway. Few weeks later, I detailed it: washed, clayed, SSR`d, AIO, UPP (2 coats).....car went to same place, no dirt during multi-day stay at the shore. As some of you guys out West know, a car with good sealants will find the dirt/dust sliding right off since it can`t adhere to the low surface tension.

[kimwallace]

Another couple of thoughts ...
If you wipe your car down with mineral spirits and do not wash it afterwards, water will bead on the surface. Same thing if you have a drop of oil on the surface that you wipe off and do not wash afterwards. I have seen water bead right after using Meguiar`s #3 Machine glaze and I know there is very little protection left on the surface from this product. In these cases and I am sure there are many more, water beads on the surface, but the paint is not protected.
I have also noticed that a product like UPP beads water in hundreds of very small droplets, while products like Butter Wax, #26, and others seem to produce larger beads and in some cases less of them.
This probably hasn`t answered any questions, but it is something to think about.

[Holyghostfilled]

Thank you for such valuable input!

Daniel
:ghost

[NYV6Coupe]

I agree with previous posts, especially kimwallace`s comments on Meg`s #3 but LSP beading, whether carnauba or polymer, has to mean something.

Guess I`m just confused `cause if beading is not an indicator of protection then neither is slickness based on kimwallace`s comments on #3 which has very little (if any) lasting protection. Same goes for VM.

Spray some PAM on your car, spread a little salad oil on it, or how about a little vaseline. Watch it bead & boy, is it slick but there is no protection so how can you tell, really tell the difference between when the paint is protected and when you`re fooling yourself?

Yes, every car will bead somewhat whether it`s properly maintained or not, but I`m talking about BEADING .... not just a few oddly shaped mini-puddles forming while most of it sheets away due to gravity rather than surface slickness (reduced surface tension).

Right now I can definitely say that FMJ beads very well but the beads are not tall or round, kinda shaped like weird pancakes. Collinite & most other quality carnauba`s provides tall, tight, round beads. Scottwax posted a low-angle pic of #16 on his roof & it looked like a uniform cobblestone street.

Seems to me that any LSP worth applying will either bead where water tends to sit (hood, roof, deck lid) or sheet away due to slickness rather than gravity.

I`ve seen numerous posts from people who use Zaino, stating that the hort. surfaces of their car are a mess of beads when sitting in the parking lot but it`s almost completely dry by the time they get home.

[sgo]

That is a tough one. I guess if you waxed the car and it produces a certain result, such as beading, water run off, etc. When that result fades that would be the indication the protection is gone. This is not the same as walking up to a strange car and being able to tell if the protection is gone. It`s like you have to know the before, during and after to really be able to tell.
Here`s an interesting tidbit on beading I found while doing a Google search.
http://www.kemopro.com/productinfo/WAX109/results.html

[CharlesW]

You just opened a big ole can of worms with this one.
My own personal rule of thumb is ... when my QD stops being easy to use, I feel the wax or sealant protection is gone. Nothing scientific, but that is what I use.The feel of the paint when using a QD was the indicator I went by and I still think it is a good one.
However, the feel after using Spray & Wipe seems to work even better for me. Some QD`s leave something on the paint that can fool me a little. The S&W doesn`t leave anything on the paint and when it becomes more difficult to use, I apply more wax/sealant.
FWIW, I have never had this occur with my AIO/UPP combination or my AIO/S100 Carnauba combo. I have had it happen with Meguiar`s NXT. I try to reapply whatever I have on the vehicle every 30 days or thereabouts. The UPP and the S100 still feel slick after a month. The NXT doesn`t. The three times I have used the NXT, it seems like 30 days is pushing it. The NXT looks great, but I don`t think it is going to be used much in the future. The GTP has NXT right now, but will get AIO/UPP in the next week or two.

Charles

[Don]

I am not sure we will ever get a solid answer to this question. But this
is what was told to me by someone else:

"The question of sheeting or beeding as a test. I would look to
surface tention as a test. If contaminates are unable to easily
adhere to the finish you have low surface tention. If they adhere
easily you have high surface tention. In the later you have insufficient
protection for your finish. If you have a properly protected finish
contaminates should easily wipe or wasy away when washing or using
one of your express detail products."

I believe you have it backwards, high surface tension = heavy beading, low surface tension = little/no beading

[jeff2417]

We beat this topic to death about 6 mos ago...

Lemme see if I can find the thread.

[sgo]

Then it`s true -- history DOES repeat itself. :bass