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LightngSVT
12-04-2004, 01:26 PM
I want to state that I agree that points 1-5 are very good and sound advice. My issue is the blanket statement that all enthusiast detailers and internet detailing forums are "bad" and only a Pro can do a good job.



I occasionally visit a Ferrari board and they send out a monthly newsletter. This helpful tidbit :rolleyes: :mad: was included this month just thought I`d share (I have no affiliation with this site):

_____________________________________________



"Article Heading: ATTENTION TO DETAIL by Matt Zakarian and Mike Lee of Detailing Dynamics



Title: The Seven Biggest Mistakes People Make When Detailing their Ferrari



1. Using the wrong tools: I`m sure you`ve heard of "the right tool for the

job" and detailing your Ferrari is no exception to the rule. For example, I see

many people using the sponge/wash mitt you washed your car with to clean the

wheels, instead of using a wheel brush; or using some old rag to remove wax

off your paint instead of using a diaper/microfiber. These "shortcuts" not

only affect the quality of your job, but will also cost you a lot of extra work

later on. You ask how? Well, suppose that sponge you used on your wheels

picked up some brake dust, which did not rinse out but then wound up

scratching your hood the next time you washed your Ferrari. I can see you

cringe by the way. How long would it take to polish that scratch out? D

you want to take that chance?



2. Not giving the chemicals enough time to work: This is called "dwell

time." Many chemicals need time to work because their effectiveness is

based on a chemical reaction, not a physical one (as in a compound). Some

of the chemicals that fall into this category include tar removers (as well

as other solvent based chemicals) and leather conditioners. How do you know

how much time is enough? Read the directions (usually). Most often, the

directions are accurate, but I have noticed that on some products the

directions seem to have been written by a marketing or technical writer,

rather than by someone who actually used them. This is another case where

hurrying and taking off the chemical costs you more time in the end, because

you have to reapply it again.



3. Not letting the chemical do the work: I`ve seen many people resort to

using pressure, when the chemical they`re using doesn`t seem to work. For

example, when they`re washing their cars and the shampoo doesn`t remove the

spot, they press harder and harder on the sponge (probably scratching the

paint) instead of realizing the shampoo was not made to remove that spot and

maybe they should try a chemical that was. Remember that usually there is a

correct chemical solution for every problem. If you don`t know what that

chemical is, you can inquire online at (url removed) or call Detailing Dynamics at (phone number removed). But practicing on your Ferrari isn`t the wise thing to do.







4. Not using window towels on windows: The #1 problem most of the people

seem to have is getting windows truly clean. And while the cleaner you use

is important, it still won`t work properly without using the proper towel.

Trust me on this one! I know; you`re saying that you use newspaper (by the

way, ever since they switched to water based ink on newspapers, all it will

do is dirty your hands), paper towels or expensive disposable wipes you

purchased from that pretty catalog. I`m telling you that I`ve tried them

all and come back to these DyNA Clarity Glass Towels or equivalent window

microfiber suedes for only one reason; they work best. You want to have a

set of window towels that are dedicated for that purpose only and nothing

else. And make sure you wash them properly. (I describe how to do this in

my website.)



5. Using vinyl dressing on leather: One of the things that drives me

absolutely nuts is the directions on vinyl dressings. They almost always

say to use them on vinyl and leather. No, no, no! Think about it; have you

seen any shiny cows walking around like they`ve been drinking Armor All�

This is one of those times when you should not follow the directions. Not

only does the dressing make the leather shiny and slippery, but it also

closes the pores in the leather. How the vinyl protectant manufacturers can

get away with this amazes me. I`ve seen more than enough cars where Armor

All has been applied to leather seats and allowed to bake in the sun, thus

ruining the leather beyond repair. I`m sure the manufacturers of the vinyl

dressings know this, yet continue to include that in their directions in

order to increase sales.



6. Listening to their neighbor/friend who details on the side: Now this is

my personal favorite. Of all the six mistakes, this one is the most

widespread. It seems that almost every other person I meet has a buddy or relative who "details" (and is more than willing to share his vast arsenal of knowledge

with you). But as one of my best customers (who is a dentist) said, "Just

because you brush your teeth, it doesn`t make you a dentist". I`ve seen

people wash their car with a Brillo pad because their neighbor Bob told them

it would remove the road tar (well he was right, it did along with the clear

coat) as well as other "Oops" maneuvers.



7. Getting advice from the internet chat rooms: This one I added recently due to the growing popularity of the internet. I now read the detailing forum threads every chance I get; not for educational purposes, but for pure entertainment. IÃâ‚â„ve previously heard it said that Ãâ‚Å“The internet is the biggest source of misinformationÃâ‚Â and in this case I must say itÃâ‚â„s true. I especially enjoy reading the Ãâ‚Å“professionalÃâ‚Â forums; after all, these guys must know what theyÃâ‚â„re talking about. Ironically the top detailers in the country who IÃâ‚â„ve had a chance to get to know over the years never contribute their knowledge to these chat rooms. IÃâ‚â„ve found the advice on these forums to fall into (3) categories:



(1) The correct/best solution to the question or problem at hand.

(2) A mediocre/partial solution that although is not the best one will still not damage the car.

(3) A completely wrong solution that will not solve the problem and damage the car.



The problem in most cases is that you donÃâ‚â„t know who is on the other side of the keyboard. I remember some time ago on one Ãâ‚Å“ProfessionalÃâ‚Â chat room there was one user who was very helpful answering every question posted and offering advice to everyone who had a challenge. This went on for about (2) months after which he posted Ãâ‚Å“Just did my first paid detailÃâ‚Â. My question is what was he doing for the previous months? Doing your mothers and uncle TonyÃâ‚â„s car for free doesnÃâ‚â„t qualify you to be a Ãâ‚Å“ProfessionalÃâ‚Â detailer.



Well, there you go; a short list of lessons I have personally learned the

hard way and hope you won`t have to. As always, should you have any

questions or comments, please feel free to contact us at (phone number removed) or email at (email removed). May the wind be

always at your back and may you achieve your pursuit of detailing

perfection!"

rstype
12-04-2004, 02:07 PM
Why the eye rolling and angry face? In fact, I agree 100%. The requirements to being a "true, uber dedicated Autopian" are internet access and the ability to type or post pictures. I`ve been amazed by the misinformation and lack of knowledge of several self-proclaimed professionals. Apparently, knowing "how," as opposed to "why," is enough.



Likewise, re: your title, just because you`re an "Autopian" doesn`t mean you know any better. None of us have a greater knowledge than that of any other detail board, car forum, etc.

jvcn
12-04-2004, 02:32 PM
The really frustrating thing for me is that there`s no way to know what constitutes a good professional. There are so many services in this city where the cars are horribly detailed. You can expect reasonable competence from an MD with a Johns Hopkins degree who has practiced at a major hospital for 20 years. There is no real equivalent in the car detailing business. Some professionals may think so, but you`ll pardon me if I disagree.



I was prepared to pay to have the swirls in my car removed, but had no reliable way to find a good one in this city. I talked to several who basically said, "Of course we know what we`re doing!" or else I saw that the cars that were emerging were in unacceptable condition after the detail. I must say that just because a detailing company generates a lot of business and has been operating for 20 years does not mean they would do better than Scottwax or Mike from Meguiar`s. All one needs to do is go to a large "Hand Wash and Detail service" in the expensive parts of town and see the "swirl-added cars" emerge from their baths.



I was also visiting a friend in So Cal and saw a high end dealer with both a Lotus and a Maserati that were new and already swirled. When looking around, the salesman volunteered (proudly) that the cars had just been professionally detailed!



So yes, the internet is definitely unfiltered info. Lector caveat. But as an outsider, I am not sure why I should think that a 20 year business detailer necessarily knows more than a dedicated teenager who`s been obssessed with the hobby for years. One would hope the "pro" would know more. Sadly, no guarantees.

JustinR32
12-04-2004, 02:47 PM
I think that what that guy writes is good advice. Even when I read stuff here, I stop and think about whether it makes sense within the basic principles that I know from experience are correct. It`s sorta Hippocratic, if you think about it; "First, do no harm."



I remember as a two week noob writing here about how I did my leather seats with leather dressing and a PC. Showroom Lincoln took me aside and scolded me gently about using ANY power tool on my leather. But, if my post had gone unanswered and unchallenged, it would have just sat out there as misinformation on Autopia, waiting for someone to find it with a search and duplicate my error... and it almost did, he didn`t answer it for several days.



We are a forum and a knowledge sink. The sum of what we know comes down to the most common answers to questions. This article reflects those common answers pretty accurately, I think.



Tom

Spilchy
12-04-2004, 02:47 PM
Thats one heck of a website they got. Take a look at the interior and exterior pages.



Those pics show a true Autopian at work

Spilchy
12-04-2004, 02:55 PM
WOW, on second examination of the entire site, that is one hell of a detail shop. I am totally impressed. It blows the doors off most shops I see here except maybe the guy Varong from Bangok Thailand.

NavindraLR
12-04-2004, 03:32 PM
hey thats the detailing place by me... :D i was trying to find their website... i gotta go there soon to get my clear bra put on the front of my car.. they charge a lot though :down

Corey Bit Spank
12-04-2004, 03:39 PM
Bha who cares, I do it for the fun of it. Not to turn a profit and not to get e-kudos.



These people act like a Ferrari is so much different from every car out there. It`s like "ooooh I got meself a ferrrrari and I have to use this wax because this wax alone was meant with exotics in mind and if I don`t do THIS right on my ferrari it will make it horrible but if I did it to any common car it would be perfectly fine."



That`s ok, I like to drive my car once and awhile.

stilez
12-04-2004, 04:09 PM
Not too far from me :)



I pretty much agree there.



The Professional Detailer thing always gets me :)...There are an abundance of mobil and stationary detailers in my area who do extremely sub-par work. I remember back before I even drove (5+ years ago) my dad had my moms Bimmer detailed by a local place. When we picked it up we noticed holograms all over the paint and said "That doesn`t seem right"...The detailer told us they were smears that would come right out after we washed it. Well, obviously we didn`t use them again, but you know what...still in business :(

TW85 HHI
12-04-2004, 04:18 PM
Like every profession, there are true professionals and there are those that call themselves professionals. A lot of hobbyist detailers are far more professional and produce superior results than many of the "professional" detailers in this country.

stilez
12-04-2004, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by TW85 HHI

Like every profession, there are true professionals and there are those that call themselves professionals. A lot of hobbyist detailers are far more professional and produce superior results than many of the "professional" detailers in this country.



Ditto.

imported_BretFraz
12-04-2004, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by BW

Why the eye rolling and angry face? In fact, I agree 100%. The requirements to being a "true, uber dedicated Autopian" are internet access and the ability to type or post pictures. I`ve been amazed by the misinformation and lack of knowledge of several self-proclaimed professionals. Apparently, knowing "how," as opposed to "why," is enough.



Likewise, re: your title, just because you`re an "Autopian" doesn`t mean you know any better. None of us have a greater knowledge than that of any other detail board, car forum, etc.



And I second the above sentiments. I read nothing in that Ferrari post that was fundamentally wrong.



Dissing the Ferrari folks for acting elitist is pure hypocrisy when it comes from any active member of this forum. There is no great skill to making a car shine; all it takes is a little knowledge, some practice, and decent products. A few specific do`s and dont`s will turn almost anyone into a pretty good detailer, regardless of what brand of car they drive.

LightngSVT
12-04-2004, 06:41 PM
I added an edit to my original post. It explains my thoughts when I (mistakenly) posted this. There are 5 points of very good advice. But why blanket all "bakyard" detailers and internet sites as being bad? Yes there are most likely more enthusiast that will do more harm than the few who truely excel. But there are many "pro`s" who do very poor quailty work too and they far out number those who are top notch.



I will be the first to admit that I dont know it all and will never claim to. I feel Im compatent, but still have many things I need to learn. But in the end a car is a car and if you have the *proper skills* it doesnt matter if you own a detail shop, or if your a fast food worker whjo does details on the side

MongooseGA
12-04-2004, 07:04 PM
Detailing Dynamics, eh?



Is their website www.DetailingDynamics.com ? Here a gallery of a 1994 NSX they did. Look at the sun spots in the "after" pics. Still enough swirls to warrant a polish, atleast by my standards..



Their customers do have nice collections of cars, though :cool:

Antonio Wright
12-04-2004, 07:31 PM
Those 7 steps are right on.