Lots of questions about Pads and backing plates.....

[AlexRuiz]

Well, I finally got permission, I mean authorization from my wife to buy a PC.... (married guys understand ;))

I think the 7336 from Lowes will make the trick. I have read tons of threads about pads and backing plates and while I think I know most of the basics, I still have many questions. As a side coment and off topic, it was hard to convince her. My wife, who is not very informed about paint care said something like "You want another machine? You already have 2! I don`t know why you can`t use them and need another one. Besides, the cars always look great, clean and shiny...."



I have a chicago electric rotary and a 10" cheap vector buffer (by the way, it has been very useful for applying and removing wax) I have not used the rotary yet as I don`t have any pads, and the general consensus seem to be that the included bonnets are ready for the trash can. In addition to the PC, some pads are needed. Both Lake county and sonus seem to be favorites here. I think I will try them both.



1) Backing plate size, 5" or 6"?: The Sonüs pack from Autopia includes a 5" backing plate. 5" seem to be easier for vibrations, but can`t be used with pads larger than 6.5". Should I go for a 6" plate, or the 5" will me make me happy? What would you pick and why?



2) Pads classification: If I have read correctly, pads can be for cutting, polishing and finishing. What I know is something like this

Pad action ---- Sonus --- Lake County

Cutting --- Orange --- Yellow

Light cutting --- N / A --- Orange

Polishing --- Green --- White

Final polish / glazing --- Blue --- Black

Waxing / finishing --- Grey --- Red

It seems that 2 pads per action are the minimum. I assume finishing and glazing pads just one of each. Beyond that, what are the pads that I should stock the most?



3) Pads and products combinations:

I have read that the right pad and the right compound can makie wonders for a neglected paint. I wonder however what happens if you mix pad with products (let`s think DACP- blue vs. #80-orange, using sonus pads as reference). What matters the most, pad or product? What would work better of those mixed combinations? Would they woprk at all? How about a terry bonnet? How would you compare it against a pad, would it be polishing or cutting? I know someone should have already tried my crazy combinations.



4) The wild card - rotary:

In the ideal world, I should be able to use the same pads for the rotary also instead of getting more pads for it. Can the PC pads be used for the rotary also? What backing plate do I need? Am I stuck to get diferent pads for the rotary?



5) Spot detailing - 3.5" backing plate.

This seems like a no brainer to me. What a good idea. I think getting the pads is also a no brainer. The question here is: If I get the 3.5" plate for the PC, do you think I need to get one also for the rotary?





Answers are appreciated. :xyxthumbs





Alex

[audio1der]

I`m the process of deciding on pads as well, and I don`t think you can beat LC`s value- I don`t know how often I`d use some of the Sonus pads, and with shipping from the US, it comes out MUCH more expensive.

Anyhow, I know for myself, I`m going 5" backing plate with 6" pads simply for edge protection, so the backing plate NEVEr comes in contact with the paint.



I don`t think PC pads lend themselves to rotary use, as with the PC you`re not supposed to use the edge EVER, while you can with the rotary, which wold kill the PC pads.



Thats`s it for me- I`ll definately be following this thread.

Cheers

[Pondscum]

You`re in luck because Lowe`s just lowered the price of the PC 7336 to less than $100.



What pads you use is really a personal thing. What works well for me, may not work well for you. It all depends on the technique which you learn over time. If you`re just starting out with the PC, you should try a variety of pads from different manufacturers and see which ones work the best for you. I prefer the Sonüs pads with a 5" backing plate personally, but I`ve only tried one type of the LC pads and they have several different types.



You may not need to buy a whole set of pads. It depends on what you`re going to be doing with them. If you have a vehicle with a finish in very bad shape that you need to restore, you may need several pads. If your vehicle`s finish is in great shape, and you plan on applying and removing wax by hand, you may need only 2 types of pads.



I like using Sonüs MF bonnets over the white pad that comes with the PC7336. I use this for applying Klasse SG. Amazon.com sells the replacement for the PC white pad.

[AlexRuiz]

Going a little slower than expected, but it seems that the 5" backing plate has its bonuses. Keep them coming up! :up



Alex

[Eliot Ness]

If you order the Sonus pad kit youâ€â„¢ll get a 5â€Â� backing plate that will also work fine with the 6/6.5â€Â� LC pads, it will also give you a starter set of pads. From there you can order additional Sonus pads or try some LC or Megâ€â„¢s pads. The pad I use the most is a polishing pad, of which I have several.



Start out with the lest aggressive pad/product combo and then step up if needed. For example here is where I might start: #80 on a polish pad, then step up to #83 on a polish pad, then step up to #83 on a light cutting or cutting pad. I personally wouldnâ€â„¢t use #83 on the blue pad because it is made for lighter polishes, not saying you couldnâ€â„¢t, just that I wouldnâ€â„¢t start there if I felt a need for something as aggressive as #83.



Although I have some terry and MF bonnets I havenâ€â„¢t felt a need to use the terry, I have used the MF bonnets for buffing off LSPâ€â„¢s.



Rotaryâ€Â¦Ãƒ¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã‚¦.. havenâ€â„¢t tried any of my PC pads on the rotary yet. The rotary will produce more heat, but perhaps less stress (on the Velcro) than the RO action of the PC. Either try some and see how they hold up or ask the manufacturer about that. Since my 4â€Â� pads from CMA look like LC pads, and they sell a 3.5â€Â� adapter to use them with a rotaryâ€Â¦.. well you can draw your own conclusions.



Get a 3.5â€Â� backing plate for the 4â€Â� pads, and if you want to use them on a rotary get a 3.5â€Â� backing plate made for the rotary:



http://www.properautocare.com/4inspotreppa.html



The subject of pads has also been covered quite extensively here, so a search should turn up quite a bit of information.

[togwt]

~One manâ€â„¢s opinion / observations~



Backing Plates:

Backing plates are fitted with Velcro to enable attachment of Velcro backed foam pads. To change the backing plate use the flat spindle wrench (PN 69200) supplied with the machine, to hold the centre spindle and rotate the backing plate counter-clockwise to loosen or clockwise to tighten, turn the backing



Lightweight moulded flexible Urethane backing plates are superior to the more ridged and heavier backing plates commonly used.



Always use a smaller sized Velcro backing plate then the Velcro foam pad you are using (i.e. a 6-inch Velcro backing plate and a 6.5-inch Velcro foam pad) Never use a Velcro backing plate that is larger then the Velcro backed foam pad.



Pads must be matched to an appropriate product to achieve the desired results. A 5-inch diameter backing plate when used with a 6.5 -inch foam pad allows a 0.75-inch `safety` margin` between the edge of the backing plate and the foam pad. To ensure compatibility of fit with a Porter-Cable the post adaptor should be a 5/16th-inch-24 threaded shaft.



To centre a foam pad on the PC, set it upside down with the Velcro backing plate facing up (this is easier if the side handle is attached). Using the tips of your fingers as spacers against the edges of the backing plate. You can centre it with near perfection most of the time.



Here`s a brief guide to help you select the correct (LC) product for your needs, all of these pads have a hook and loop fastening system. The Velcro on both the pad and backing plate allows you to quickly and easily install and remove the pads listed below:



A flat pad (FT), gives you even pressure throughout. It takes more pressure to stop the spinning of the random orbital buffer, so your finish comes out more even. You may find they have a little better feel to them than the variable contact pads. This style pad is best for medium polishing and finishing work; however the variable contact pad does a better job at cutting.



A constant pressure foam pad (CP) this is essentially a flat pad which uses a patented technology layer of engineered, instant rebound foam between the pad and the backing plate to absorb off-axis movements while keeping the pressure of the pad on the surface constant. It allows even beginners to achieve professional-like results, the curved 6- inch pads outer edge makes transitioning seams and uneven panel breaks easier and the concave "dish" in the centre of the pad reduces product splatter, and gives the operator greater pad control. These pads feature three, patented, design innovations.



A curved edge foam pads (CE) are great for working in tight spaces or a surface with lots of waves and narrow strips-such as the "A" pillar. The polish is applied to the outer edge of the pad and the PC is used at more of an angle. With this method, you are halfway between a flat and VC pad with surface contact. This pad can also be used flat. In this case, you would apply more polish on the peak between the curve and recess. This technique would be similar to a variable contact pad.



The variable contact foam pads (VC) provide focused pressure around the edges of the pad. They concentrate the polish within a smaller surface area. Theoretically, one would never really use the centre of a variable contact pad. Because of this focused pressure, this type of pad is ideal for cutting. However, the user should be aware that this increased pressure could cause a random orbital buffer to stall. Variable contact pads are better suited for use with a high-speed rotary polisher



Tufted foam pads (TF) are made from pre-polymer foam with a 50% open cell structure. This pad has nine- times the surface area of a flat pad. This dissipates heat, spreads polish over a larger area and reduces polish build-up called "caking". This means less time spent adding polish to the pad and less time spent changing and cleaning pads and greater user control (7.5-inch pads).



Contoured Edge pads (CE) these 7.5-inch pads have a graduated, concave polish pocket similar to the variable contact foam pads but feature a contoured edge with a recessed area for the backing plate. These pads have four distinct working surfaces 1.Flat for polishing 2. They can be â€Ëœliftedâ€â„¢ using the outer 1/3rd of the pad for areas that are tight or that require more heat. 3.The outer edge of the pad can be used for seams or corners 4. The underside can be used for polishing around mirrors or other thigh areas.



Machine Polish / Foam Pad Combinations:

Always start with the least abrasive combination, if that combination of foam pad and polish doesnâ€â„¢t remove the surface imperfections, proceed using the same grade of polish but change to a more aggressive foam pad. Once you are satisfied that the surface imperfections have been removed, proceed by using the least abrasive polish / foam pad combination to remove the â€Ëœcompounding hazeâ€â„¢.

a.Use Iz Einzett Paint Polish and a polishing foam (LC White) VC foam

b.Utilizing the same polish, change to a cutting/polishing foam (LC Orange) VC pad

c.With the same polish, change to cutting foam (LC Yellow) VC pad

d.Remove the â€Ëœcompounding hazeâ€â„¢ using Iz Einzett Metallic Polish and a polishing foam (LC White) F pad.



If none of these combinations remove the surface imperfections, and only if necessary â€Ëœstep-upâ€â„¢ to a more abrasive polish Iz Einzett Ultra Polish using the same foam pads as in (1) above

It is preferable to polish 2-3 times to restore the paint film surface than to use an unnecessarily abrasive machine polish / foam pad combination.



The use of abrasive type polish / cleaners should always be restricted to specific problems. Most original paint finishes are tougher on the outer surface than the layers underneath. The outer layers should be preserved as far as possible. Always use the least aggressive product first, evaluate the surface, then only if necessary `step-up` to a more abrasive product



~Hope this helps~



Knowledge unshared is experience wasted [each one / teach one]

justadumbarchitect / so I question everything/ JonM

[AlexRuiz]

Thanks for tall the answers guys. I will write a summary post ;)

[AlexRuiz]

Results so far :)



1) Backing plate size, 5" or 6"?:

Should I go for a 6" plate, or the 5" will me make me happy? What would you pick and why?

- 5" is easier on the pads. Both are very good choices



2) Pads classification:

What are the pads that I should stock the most?

- Polishing pads.



3) Pads and products combinations:

What matters the most, pad or product?

- Change pad before changing product, so this leads me to think the product has a higher impact on the paint.

What would work better of those mixed combinations?

It seems that a more abbrasive product will matter more.



Would they work at all?

- no answer yet

How about a terry bonnet? How would you compare it against a pad, would it be polishing or cutting?

- no answer yet





4) The wild card - rotary:

Can the PC pads be used for the rotary also?

- It seems it can be done as long as you don`t use the edge of the pad ;)

What backing plate do I need?

- Just a backing plate that fits the rotary M 5/8-11 threaded.... and at a size it fits your pads.

shaft

Am I stuck to get diferent pads for the rotary?

- PC pads may be used. Ask the manufacturer



5) Spot detailing - 3.5" backing plate.

Do you think I need to get one also for the rotary?

- Yes







Thanks everyone, keep the comments flowing :up



Alex

[imported_jaobrien6]

Alex,



If this is for your hobby (not detailing for money), don`t bother with getting 2 cutting pads. Even if you have a car that`s been neglected, you will only really need a cutting pad the first time. You just won`t use it very often at all unless you`re detailing a lot of cars. When I got my PC, I got 2 LC cutting, 2 polishing and 2 finishing. I wish I`d gotten 1 cutting, 3 polishing and 2 finishing. I still have 1 cutting pad sealed in plastic. If you like applying LSP`s by hand, then you don`t really even need the finishing pads (but I`ve found applying LSP`s by using the PC is super easy).



If I was going to go the sonus pad route, I don`t know exactly what counts I`d recommend as there are 4 levels to choose from instead of 3. Definitely not more than 1 of the orange cutting though, in my opinion.



John

[AlexRuiz]

Originally posted by jaobrien6

Alex,



If this is for your hobby (not detailing for money), don`t bother with getting 2 cutting pads. Even if you have a car that`s been neglected, you will only really need a cutting pad the first time. You just won`t use it very often at all unless you`re detailing a lot of cars. When I got my PC, I got 2 LC cutting, 2 polishing and 2 finishing. I wish I`d gotten 1 cutting, 3 polishing and 2 finishing. I still have 1 cutting pad sealed in plastic. If you like applying LSP`s by hand, then you don`t really even need the finishing pads (but I`ve found applying LSP`s by using the PC is super easy).



If I was going to go the sonus pad route, I don`t know exactly what counts I`d recommend as there are 4 levels to choose from instead of 3. Definitely not more than 1 of the orange cutting though, in my opinion.



John



It is a passtime, but a few cars will be done (over 10 between relatives and friends). I will take your advice.



I also love applying the LSP by machine. Maybe not that faster, but surely a much more even coating. :bounce

[BookemDano]

I apply Zaino Z2 and Z5 LSP using an 7.5" LC Constant Pressure pad (from www.properautocare.com). I`ve used the black and the red pads, but I prefer the red. Now I have 2 red pads (one for Z2 and one for Z5).



I find that I can lay down a thin, even coat using my PC and a red pad set at about 3.5 to 4.0.



Regards,



Dan.

[togwt]

Quote: How about a terry bonnet? How would you compare it against a pad, would it be polishing or cutting?

- no answer yet



~One manâ€â„¢s opinion / observations~



The abrading ability of any polish can be changed by their application method (i.e. machine or hand application, speed and / or pressure used, using it wet or dry and / or type of foam composition (different foam compositions and / or densities have a differing abrading ability)



A terry bonnet has a rougher composition and is denser than a foam pad = more abrasive



~Hope this helps~



Knowledge unshared is experience wasted [each one / teach one]

justadumbarchitect / so I question everything/ JonM