UPP Performance failing?

[Craigster]

Sean did a great job on my car a few weeks ago:





http://www.autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45520



Since then I`ve washed once with a two bucket rinse method and applied one more coat of UPP, all using 4* Wash and new pads, wash sponge, DerWunder towel etc from Autopia. Yesterday, I washed again (this makes the second wash, the first wash since the second coat of UPP). I do not park under trees or have even used the car that much in the past 2 weeks.



After the wash yesterday, I noticed that not only has the surface lost a good deal of that "ultimate slickness" from UPP, I am noticing a good amount of marring already. I use then same techniques and frequency with my Mach1 which is using NXT, and it seems to be staying slicker and holding up better.



Has anyone else noticed this? Is UPP the wrong sealant to be using on a dark metallic car?



Thanks for experineces and opinions. If I went the wrong route, I`d really like to get straightened out before the winter.



Thanks,



Craig

[stilez]

Interesting...



Here are my thoughts Craig.



Light marring and swirling is inevitable unfortunately, but which wash mitts are you exactly using? No matter what over time, your car will become swirled/marred if it`s a daily driver. There is always gonna be something that`s gonna lightly drag over the surface. My car, for instance, has light marring and I detailed it about 5 weeks ago. I clean it every 3 days and this still happens. My reasoning is mostly due to my very soft clearcoat from my repaint and/or that one time you rush the wash.



As far as slickness, it is a mystery to me. Like I told you, I only used UPP on my brother`s car but I did not monitor it. People claim 4-5 months of protection through the elements. Rule of thumb is that if it`s losing slickness, something is attacking the surface. I have noticed that with bucket washing (no matter what wash), you are always going to lose slickness, but I use Poorboy`s Spray and Wipe (waterless wash) every 3-5 days to have a solid up keep on my teg. It is still as slick as the day I put my last coat of wax on.



I`m no UPP genius, but I`ll let them chime in...



If you love that slickness, you may want to consider using a QD after your wash. For marring, you may want to consider a nice carnauba wax that will hide light marring. Once these days get even shorter, it is very hard to see swirling. The sun isn`t overhead, it`s more to the side...



Hope this helps :)

[Craigster]

Thanks for the ideas Sean.



I bought the Chenille (sp?) Wash sponges from Autopia. I think they are the same ones you use (sorry to copy greatness...)



I know part of this is having a dark car, which I never had before. The light marring is expected, but like I said, I`ve never seen it this quickly from either the Zaino or the NXT. And losing the slickness this quickly is weird. It is still slick, but after only two washes I find it strange that the NXT car is MUCH slicker. After the rains we`ve had, it was almost like the slickness was gone until I washed it. The dirt seemed like it was clinging to the surface. Since I use both cars in the same places, I would think I would be seeing the same effects on both cars, which I am not.



I am wondering if one of my mistakes is using the 4* car wash. (I wasnt impressed with the free car wash gel I got either, In fact after using it once, I dont see any real difference between that and using regular car wash.) When I used the Car Wash, even after rinsing 2x with a free flowing hose, there was still a slight film I noticed after drying. My squeeqee even dragged and hopped on the windows, which I never ever had before. It`s almost like the RainX you put on is almost gone.



My hand and fingers were "tingling" for a while after I was done. I washed my hands with Ivory and it went away. I think I will try using the NXT car wash that I use with the Mach and try another UPP coat and see where I wind up.



Well, I`m sure some other experiences from here may shine a light. I`ve read a few people complain about LSPs needing a topper. Perhaps one on the Mailbu would help. Any recommedations? I`ll try some Poorboys wash too.



Thanks.



Craig

[breakneckvtec]

Interesting



My car and my girls car just had big details done on them. I polished these things out nicely with the SSR line and then put two coats of UPP on both.



Light marring has returned on the cars for me as well. I am wondering if its in the protection layer maybe, I am using the new formula of UPP btw.

[Craigster]

I have the new formula, too.





Are you using the wash?

[breakneckvtec]

No, I used PB SSS wash



I may have not been as careful when drying the last time, but it still shouldnt have marred IMO. Like I said, its VERY light, but you can see it if you look for it. I wonder if its something to do with the UPP.

[Accumulator]

For marring-free washing, see THIS THREAD (http://www.autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35232)



I use that technique with Griot`s Car Wash and my UPP stays slick and marring-free for a *long* time.



IMO using the chenille-covered sponges is gonna mar the paint. They sorta require some pressure on the paint, and that will rub in dirt, which will cause marring. With something slick like UPP you don`t need any pressure to get the dirt off.



Oh, and washing (the "right" way) more frequently will help keep dirt from sticking to the surface. This will further reduce the chance of marring.



Sorta the same thing when drying. If you rub the paint you risk marring it, especially if you missed some dirt. Blot with a BBT and do any wiping with something softer (like the gray WWs from Ian). Wash WWs in MicroRestore to keep them soft.

[breakneckvtec]

Thanks Accumulator, that was very informative



I was re-thinking my process. I dont blot, I swipe the paint with my BBT. I am pretty sure this is what introduced the marring. I use a very light touch when I wash, nothing sticks to UPP. I was pretty sure that wasnt causing it, I use a quality soap as well.



From now on I will be using a steady stream of water for the final rinse and blotting the paint instead of swiping. I think its too late to deal with it this season, so I will just have to be careful to not introduce any additional marring till I can handle it next season.



Where can I buy Micro Restore? Should this be used everytime you wash your MF towels? I think another contributor is this, my BBT is feeling way less soft then when I bought it.

[Craigster]

Yes, thanks for the link. But again, I can`t help but think there is something with the UPP or the wash. I have two cars, parked in the same place, driven to the same places using the same techniques. The car with the NXT products is not suffering the marring or loss of slickness, neither did the vehicles when I used Zaino. Now I switch to UPP and 4* wash and in less than two weeks, marring appears and slickness dissappears on the one car with UPP. I never had my hands tingle and my fingers feel hot after using a car wash either, but that`s what I am getting with the 4* wash.



I`m going to apply another coat of UPP and try a different wash and see what happens.

[Bill D]

I love washing with the foam gun per Accumulator and I take it an extra step and only wash with the softest sheepskin mitts I picked out like fruit :D



That said, I do recall reading similar issues with UPP a while back, the problem was also that it seemed to wear off quick :nixweiss

[Accumulator]

Bill D- But you can`t do the foam-through-the-mitt thing with the sheepskin mitts, you *can*, however, fill it with soapy foam and let it seep out of the mitt. So far, the best combo has been foam-through-MF mitt, but you gotta watch the MF doesn`t get some grit stuck in it.



The v1.0 UPP didn`t last long at all. The current v3.0 is much better. But it might be shampoo sensitive.



Craigster- The way you can do side-by-side comparos with the NXT *does* point towards the wash. I`d probably suspect the soap, even though it *oughta* be the most compatible. You know how people are always saying how UPP and BF are so similar? I remember how BF shampoo was *way* too harsh on BF LSP, seemed to nearly strip it. Could be a similar situation with the UPP. Heh heh, I oughta plug the Griot`s wash again :D



breakneckvtec- I can`t remember *where* I got the MicroRestore :o but it was one of the MF vendors here. My BBT was feeling less soft too, but the MicroRestore made a big improvement (not perfect, but much better). I use it about every other time these days, but I used it *every* time for a while. Expensive detergent vs. marred paint...I`d still get some of the extra-soft WWs though, just for the final wipe.

[Bill D]

Originally posted by Accumulator

Bill D- But you can`t do the foam-through-the-mitt thing with the sheepskin mitts, you *can*, however, fill it with soapy foam and let it seep out of the mitt. So far, the best combo has been foam-through-MF mitt, but you gotta watch the MF doesn`t get some grit stuck in it.







I do the foam gun in one hand, mitt in the other method, having constant,running foam over the area I`m whisking with the mitt keeps it as soapy and lubricated as possible AFAIK.



If I`m picturing this correctly, it seems even more safe than having the mitt filled with soapy foam and letting it seep out because the foam gun in my other hand is constantly streaming foam over the area of the paint and my mitt at the same time if I get the right angle .

[Accumulator]

Originally posted by Bill D

If I`m picturing this correctly, it seems [the way I do it is] even more safe than having the mitt filled with soapy foam and letting it seep out because the foam gun in my other hand is constantly streaming foam over the area of the paint and my mitt at the same time if I get the right angle .



Could well be. This makes at least four different ways to use the foam gun, and they`re all probably better than "regular" wash techniques.



FWIW, I use the seeping/filled mitt as my version of a "quick/easy/careless wash".

[DAC17]

As far as the lack of slickness issue, where do you live? I`ve noticed that here in CT, there seems to be a decided lack of extended life to almost anything I put on the car. Methinks it`s primarily due to an acidic rain/dew issue that really eats through whatever protective coating is on the paint.



Other thoughts?

[Craigster]

I live on Long Island. I dont think it is the weather or environment as the my other cars and other products are holding up fine.



Just for kicks, I mixed up some 4* wash and did one of the lower panels on my Mustang with NXT, then on my girlfriends Celica, which still has Zaino.



Both of them definitely lost slickness in the areas washed compared to the adjacent panels which I cleaned with NXT wash and water.



I`m heading to SEMA tomorrow night, but when I get back I will reapply the UPP and use keep the 4* wash to clean the shower and bathtub....





:shocked



Do you think I should use the 4* Paint Cleaner first?



Also should I use my PC to apply a more even coat instead of by hand this time?



Sorry if I messed up your perfect work Sean.....