GTO

[imported_Aurora40]

For some reason I got to thinking about the new GTO. I can`t believe what a deal it is. I`ve heard of people getting GMS pricing (basically invoice) without being a GM supplier, and I`ve heard of people combining cash back with financing deals. So if that were possible, it would make a 6-speed GTO about $30k. Subtract from that the $3500 cash back and 72-month 0% financing (part of the GM 72-hour sale), and it`s about $27k over 6 years. If you have a GM card, it could be as little as $24k. That`s a ton of car for the money.



Heck, you could get a Lingenfelter 350 package and have a 450 hp brand new GTO for about $31k that way. That`s about the same as the MSRP on the previous Camaro SS, and for a (imo) nicer, more powerful car.



I think I`ll keep looking for a `90-91 twin turbo C4, but man is that tempting. I really like the style of the GTO, and I suspect I`ll like it less when it gets hood scoops.

[MongooseGA]

what are the normal retail values on a TT C4 in good condition?





While I do like the look and concept, I can`t seem to get used to the new GTO as a GTO. I`ve grown up around muscle cars, including the original GTO. I`ve never ridden in either, but the new one just doesn`t have the `presence` of the originals, IMO.





btw, check the hot tub ;)

[imported_Aurora40]

Originally posted by MongooseGA

what are the normal retail values on a TT C4 in good condition?



I guess it depends on who you ask. Also, it depends on the value you put on the Aerobody.



A non-aero 1990 with under 10k miles, to me would be worth about $25-27k depending on how mint and color and options and such. I`ve heard of a few 1988-89`s with ~3,000 miles selling for $30k. That one I went and looked at, I`d say if it were in good shape for 30k miles, with the Callaway upgrades it had (about $4,500 worth) would be worth about $24-25k. But it wasn`t in good shape, so the value depends on what you find ok. I`d want to make it mint again, so to me it wouldn`t be worth nearly that much.



Aerobody cars, it`s hard to say. Also, many have custom paint and such. You could option a lot from Callaway, and the aero cars had stickers that could be north of $90k (and this was in 1989-91, so fairly expensive). Once you`ve committed to $90k, some other optioning might not seem so bad. Callaway even had a full leather interior (full, like dash, doors, etc). I`d say a non optioned 1990 B2k aerobody with ~10k miles would be worth about $35k. A 1991, especially with 3k miles or less, might be $45k or more. It kinda depends.



I personally like that 1990 had the new interior, but still had the roof mounted rear brake light. 1991 was the new, more rounded ZR-1 inspired C4 body (doesn`t matter for aero since it`s all lower-body except for the brake light), and the 3 non-aero B2K`s that were made in 1991 (almost all cars that year were aeros) look kinda interesting/weird with the hood scoops but the new body style. But 1991 had a new intake and the hood scoops that increased power a lot (both could be added to 1988-90 cars, and to some extent to 1987 cars).



1988-89 cars, imo, are similar to 1990 values, maybe a tad less for the same miles/options, etc. But in 1990, the car had a huge interior change, went to speed density vs. MAF, and had some cooling and other changes prompted by the ZR-1. So it depends on which interior you like to decide which is more valuable.



1987 cars had a totally different turbo setup and were rated at 345 hp/465 lb-ft. 1988 went to Rotomaster turbos vs. the IHI`s, and power jumped to 382hp/562 lb-ft. So the 1987`s don`t carry quite as much buck, but are pretty cool cars. They are the ones with those NACA ducts in the hood. You either love those or hate them. I don`t love them. (1990 power was 390hp/570lb-ft, 1991 403hp/575lb-ft with a 450hp option on speedsters)



Sorry if that`s longer than what you wanted, and of course it`s all just my opinion. Asking prices are a lot higher, but I`ve seen cars that have been for sale for a year or more. You can ask whatever price you want, but not if you want someone to buy what you are selling.



Edit: Speedsters have gone for $150,000 or more. One recently pulled $150,000 at the Carlisle auction, but didn`t meet reserve. The LT-5 twin-turbo powered Super Speedsters can go for a 1/4 mil.



Also, I think personally that originality helps. Some stuff, no biggie, like exhaust. But stuff you can`t easily change back. Dymags help too. 1987`s they were an option, but I think by 1988 Dymag magnesium wheels were standard. They are expensive to replace. There`s a nice "500 series" Callaway Twin Turbo convertible in PA for sale for asking $45k. It pulled $40k at auction, but didn`t meet reserve. I believe the dealer`s had it for at least a year. It has some hideous 3-spoke wheels that look like they came from a deli slicer. I think if it had Dymags, it would have sold by now.



I also think there`s kinda something cool about a car with just all the Chevy options, including B2K. Then it`s like the ultimate factory car, without any of the non-factory stuff like the aerobody. Kind neat, but then the aerobody is pretty dang sweet looking.

[JasonD]

wow, you did a lot of typing on that one. :eek:

[MongooseGA]

Originally posted by JDookie

wow, you did a lot of typing on that one. :eek:



yup.





What difference does the Aero model have from the normal version? I assume it`s just an aesthetics package?

[imported_Aurora40]

Originally posted by MongooseGA

What difference does the Aero model have from the normal version? I assume it`s just an aesthetics package?



It was originally developed for the Sledgehammer. It was to add some downforce to the car. And it has more openings to duct air into the intercoolers I think. But yeah, it`s cool looking. It wasn`t an option until I think 1989, though maybe some 1988`s got it. But you could always have it done later. There was no RPO for it or anything, so really there`s no diff to have it done on an already-delivered car.



I think it would be pretty cool in a pearl red. :)





And yeah, a lot of typing. But I think Callaways are super cool. :cool:

[TGates]

2005 GTO`s receive the 400 hp 6.0L LS2 powerplant, courtesy of the new C6 Corvette. :bounce

[imported_Aurora40]

Originally posted by BlackSunshine

2005 GTO`s receive the 400 hp 6.0L LS2 powerplant, courtesy of the new C6 Corvette. :bounce



Yeah, but they likely won`t have the same incentives to move them. I suspect they will make fewer in anticipation of more realistic sales numbers. Plus, the styling may not improve.



And with the Lingenfelter upgrade, you`d have more than 400hp. ;)

[Glossequation]

Originally posted by BlackSunshine

2005 GTO`s receive the 400 hp 6.0L LS2 powerplant, courtesy of the new C6 Corvette. :bounce



LS6 :confused:

[boeman]

Originally posted by blackcaraddict

LS6 :confused:

The LS2 replaced the LS1... the (hand built) LS7 will replace the LS6!



The LS2 being put in the `05 GTO will only have 380hp

[TGates]

Originally posted by boeman

The LS2 replaced the LS1... the (hand built) LS7 will replace the LS6!



The LS2 being put in the `05 GTO will only have 380hp



Certainly GM wouldn`t want to rate the GTO with an equal or greater horsepower number than that of the Corvette, but I bet realistically, output will be equal to that of the Corvette. If not, the difference will probably lie either in the exhaust or tuning, both of which are easily upgradable. Then again, for a short while in 2004, the C5 coupe/convertible and the GTO were both rated at 350 horsepower.



I just can`t get over the styling, even with the hoodscoops and dual exit exhaust (one tip on each side of the car) of the 2005`s.

[mgm2003]

Here`s one raised from the dead!



I`m considering an 05 GTO (blue on blue). Sure, the body isn`t a looker like the original, but that 400HP makes you forget about it.



Any other GTO owners out there? I`d like to hear a few opinions on the car.

[nonwelder]

Just sold my `04...fast car, but not all that practical. Terrible gas mileage, no trunk, and just so so in terms of features. I loved it in so many ways, but not as my only car. Good luck...it`s a fun car..

[imported_Aurora40]

Originally posted by mgm121499

Here`s one raised from the dead!



I`m considering an 05 GTO (blue on blue). Sure, the body isn`t a looker like the original, but that 400HP makes you forget about it.



Any other GTO owners out there? I`d like to hear a few opinions on the car.



I think the hood on the 2005 looks pretty nice. It`s an attractive car. It`s maybe not a stunner, but it`s clean looking. I can`t say the original was that great looking. It was just a Tempest with hood scoops.



A 400hp 2+2 for $32k is pretty amazing.

[Glossequation]

To me the GTO looks like a souped up Grand Prix. I recently saw the new Dodge Chargers and like those more.