Need Definition

[jaxgator]

Hi all,



I`m new to detailing. Of course I`ve washed cars before but never knew how much damage this could cause when done improperly and with the wrong tools.



I`m still learning but was hoping that I might get an answer here on the forum to my question. Could someone please tell me if the following image is of swirl marks, spider webbing, stress fracture of the clear coat, some combination of any of these or possibly something else altogether...



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v437/jaxgator/scratches.jpg



Also, I would like to know if anyone can give me any suggestions as to what would be the best way for me to take care of this problem.



Thanks!

[Antonio Wright]

Originally posted by jaxgator

Hi all,



I`m new to detailing. Of course I`ve washed cars before but never knew how much damage this could cause when done improperly and with the wrong tools.



I`m still learning but was hoping that I might get an answer here on the forum to my question. Could someone please tell me if the following image is of swirl marks, spider webbing, stress fracture of the clear coat, some combination of any of these or possibly something else altogether...



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v437/jaxgator/scratches.jpg



Also, I would like to know if anyone can give me any suggestions as to what would be the best way for me to take care of this problem.



Thanks!



That is called spiderwebbing and that is quite severe I might add. A good polish to start off with is Meguiars #83(DACP).

[Bill D]

Spiderwebbing (cobweb), a type of swirl. I`d try your favorite mild to medium polish with a polishing pad first with the PC , you can go up to 6 if you need, if that doesn`t work switch to a cutting pad, see if you got it all out, if anything remains switch back down to the polishing pad to remove the remainder.



HTH

[jaxgator]

Thanks for the info and quick replys guys.



Yeah, I know it`s quite bad. I`m the second owner of the car (2000 vette) and didn`t know what to look for as far as the paint goes when I bought it. It looked fine before I bought it but I hadn`t really scrutinized it like I have now.



What is the main cause of this? Washing and drying with abrasive wash cloths / drying towels?

[Dennis H.]

It will be interesting to see what other people think these are. I think this is one of those opinion things. My vote, most of them are stress cracks from the car heating up, cooling down, being driven. My reasoning, they don`t seem to have much of a real pattern. Yeah, I know they go around in a circle but if you move 3 inches either way it will probably look the same.

[Bill D]

Numerous reasons could be the cause of these apparent spiderwebs. They could be the original defects installed by the dealer`s swirl installation dept :rolleyes and/or amplified by trips to the car wash, poor washing/wiping habits, etc., etc.





Hope you make an amazing transformation once you put your selected polish(es) to work :xyxthumbs

[Mr. Chemist]

This is an interesting topic..what exactly are "spider webs"? What I do know is that if you take a perfectly new paint finish and do nothing to it at all...for an extended period of time....spider webs will appear. Basically it appears that neglect is the primary cause. I have heard, but have no actual knowledge that these "spider webs" are caused by simply driving the car through the atmosphere...causing minute scratches in the paint.



When the sun light hit`s the scratched panel..the light is deflected and there you have the visual imperfection. As we all know these have to be removed by polishing and then the paint is protected by a good coat of wax, or your choice of coating.

[Accumulator]

Mr. Chemist- Never seen the phenomenon you`re referring to, but then I`ve never had an unprotected automotive surface either. I always assumed that such things were caused by abrasion (of a type much more severe than would be caused by stuff in the air). Older paints used to crack in sometimes-weird ways though.



jaxgator- Welcome to Autopia! Your problem looks like wash/dry induced marring to me, but I`m not about to say Dennis H. is wrong either. I`ve just never had any circular cracking like that on either of my `vettes or my other cars with `glass hoods, and the turboed `vette got *awfully* hot.



If it`s just marring, yeah, polishing should improve things quite a bit. Washing and drying with *very* soft towels/mitts/etc. and the right technique will help prevent new problems of that type.



If it`s heat-induced cracking of the paint, it can only be fixed by repainting.



Heh heh, the whole "what to call `em" brings up an issue that get gets discussed here from time to time. That`s why I always call "below the surface defects" *MARRING*. It`s a term that covers all the bases, but that`s just me...for me, scratches, swirls, holograms, etching, chips, etc. are all "marring", that is gouges/depressions in the paint surface.



"Spiderwebs" is used in two ways- circular light scratches from washing/drying and a certain type of cracking of paint. Very different things but the same term gets applied to both. I`d guess that most people mean the former- circular scratches. The cracking was more common with older paint technologies.



"Swirls" is also used two ways. The classic, "proper" definition is "rotary induced marring", which can include "holograms"- tiny circular scratches caused by a rotary polisher. But most people use "swirls" to mean the sorta-circular light scratches from washing/drying/rubbing/etc. Either way, you polish them out or live with them.

[Mr. Chemist]

Spider webs.....environmental caused minute scratching.



Swirl marks....."rotary induced marring"



Rain bowing..... light altered by chemical interference



Streaking........ uneven distribution and leveling of wax/polymer



Hazing............Water molecules attaching to polymer after or during curing



Crazing..........Cracks in paint



Any more out there?

[Dennis H.]

I think this could make for some interesting discussion.



I`ve found washing scratches/marring have some type of definition or pattern. Meaning you can follow them. I`m sure the picture has some of those which confuses the issue. Much of the marring/scratches/spiderwebbing (LOL) in this picture appears to be tiny straightish lines that travel around the light source where ever the light source may be. I think it could almost be considered grain. For the most part I see it in all paints at varying degrees. From what I understand they are necessary, paint is relatively flexible. Over time they grow and routine polishing keeps them to a minimum.



I think Accumulator hit the nail on the head with regard to keeping the surface protected. Not only is he hiding the marring/grain but the frequent polishing keeps them at a minimum to a point where the eye does not see them. Now that`s dedication!

[Accumulator]

Heh heh, that "dedication" can drive me nuts. Keeping a silver car marring-free takes 5 light sources, magnification, and an incredible amount of time. Just for stuff that nobody else would see anyhow :o I don`t think I worked much harder when I had black cars; different work, but not harder.



We could make this discussion last a few lifetimes! *I* think of grain as being pretty much invisible to the naked eye, and usually obscured by orangepeel until I employ magnification.



Mr. Chemist- Sorta a close call between the "rainbow" effects from chemicals and the "sorta-rainbow" effects from holograms, huh? And somebody`s gonna say "hazing" when they mean micromarring from too-abrasive polishes. So we really *will* still be discussing this stuff forever!



We`re some bunch to be splitting the split hairs like this :D

[DETAILKING]

Those marks to me look like they were caused by a buffer or auto carwash. THey typically appear to a lesser extent in time from normal washing and drying. As the clearcoat ages it scratches more easily. Also as abrasive products thin the clearcoat, it will scratch more easily.

[l33]

I always thought it would be a good idea to have a post identifying defects with pictures. Maybe description text, how they are created and suggestions on how to resolve them? :nixweiss

[Accumulator]

L33- That`s a great idea...it would clear up a lot of confusion. One of the pros who takes pics all the time should be able to put such a thing together without too much trouble...(hint hint ;) )

[jaxgator]

Wow! Thanks for all of the great feedback and discussion guys. :xyxthumbs



I don`t have a PC yet so I really don`t think there`s much I can do at this point. I`ll definitely post pix when I do get my hands on a PC and hit it with some polish.