Souveran-Klasse confusion?

[ExplorerXLT95]

I wouldn`t have even noticed this if 1)I weren`t addicted to looking at CMA`s site all the time and 2) I didn`t have results that were warned against in the section of text I`m about to relay.



As I was cruising around CMA`s site and reading a ton. Came across the following piece of information on the page that is for the Klasse-Pinnacle Kit (http://www.properautocare.com/klaskit.html) :



"...Do not use Klasse`s companion product, High Gloss Sealant Glaze. While Pinnacle Souveran paste wax is magical over All-In-One, it doesn`t like the Sealant Glaze. Waxing over High Gloss Sealant Glaze can produce hazy patches or ghosting..."



Now I am interested that I`ve never heard anything like this here on Autopia. I`ve always heard that doing a coat or two of AIO followed by 1 to infinity coats of SG, then allowing cure time and applying some Souveran is the time-honored practice for concours-like finishes. Now this is interesting to me because I did just that:



2xAIO

1xHGSG

1xSouveran



However, as some of you may remember, I posted a thread asking if Souveran goes bad after 2-3 years (because that`s exactly what happened, it ghosted/hazed the finish a bit).... Maybe it`s just that I used Souveran over the HGSG? Or is my Soveran still old??



Please! Someone clear up the confusion for me/us!!! :bow :nixweiss

[bigpoppa]

I`m interested to see the responses, my Klasse is going to be delivered tomorrow and I can`t wait to test it out.

[BillNorth]

For the most part, topping a wax over SG is not a problem. Many, if not all klasse users here do this, and you don`t hear any screaming. CMA only says this as disclaimer of sorts, in the rare event your wax does ghost over the SG.



I`ve topped my SG with wax numerous times, and only once a couple (or maybe three, lol) summers ago my blitz ghosted on my SG on the drivers side portion of the hood. Only that section though. The rest of the car was fine. And I`ve never had it happen again since then. And the ghosting itself wasn`t too bad. It went away in about a week, once the wax wore away a bit. It`s no big deal.



I wouldn`t worry about it. The chances of it happenning are very slim. Go ahead and top away your SG and enjoy!



Bill.

[ExplorerXLT95]

Originally posted by BillNorth

For the most part, topping a wax over SG is not a problem. Many, if not all klasse users here do this, and you don`t hear any screaming. CMA only says this as disclaimer of sorts, in the rare event your wax does ghost over the SG.



I`ve topped my SG with wax numerous times, and only once a couple (or maybe three, lol) summers ago my blitz ghosted on my SG on the drivers side portion of the hood. Only that section though. The rest of the car was fine. And I`ve never had it happen again since then. And the ghosting itself wasn`t too bad. It went away in about a week, once the wax wore away a bit. It`s no big deal.



I wouldn`t worry about it. The chances of it happenning are very slim. Go ahead and top away your SG and enjoy!



Bill.



So do you think the Souveran that I have (purchased 7/12/2002) could be bad? I don`t want to throw away a can of $70 wax just because I didn`t use it a whole bunch in those 2 years, due to car changes, etc. Any ideas? Helpful hints? :nixweiss

[blackntan]

My guess is one of two, based soley upon personal experiences..



1) it`s the SG fogging. It does that on my black car no matter what I do.. I use it for windows only now, just because I think it hates me and my black car..



2) people are adding Wax over uncured SG, and it`s ghosting then. If you do put SG on your car, you should leave it untouched for 24 hours, period. Do nothing else to it. Then you can add whatever wax you want without problem. It`s nice. I`ve had great success with this on white and silver. Whether or not that`s because you can`t see the problem listed in #1, or because SG just hates me and my black car, I haven`t decided yet....

[BillNorth]

Sean,



I doubt your wax is bad. Try using it on a non SG`d surface and see what happens. If it does not ghost ,then you know you may have ghosting problem with your SG. If it does, then I can`t explain it.



Also, listen to what blackntan said. He has some good points as well.



Bill.

[terry@cma]

Hi Sean,

Souveran should have an indefinate shelf life. We have jars that are over 5 years old and the wax is still fine. High Gloss Sealant Glaze just does not like carnauba waxes. I know there are some "experts" out there recommending waxing over HGSG but it just doesn`t work well. I would stick with either the Klasse twins or apply your favorite wax over All-In-One and omit using HGSG.

Terry Freiberg

Classic Motoring Acc

[BillNorth]

Originally posted by terry@cma

I know there are some "experts" out there recommending waxing over HGSG but it just doesn`t work well. Terry Freiberg

Classic Motoring Acc



:D :D :D :D :D :D



Terry,



I`m definitely not an expert. Never have been, never will be. All I can speak about is my own personal experience. And in that experience, wax over SG, for the most part, works quite well, and looks quite good. YMMV though.



Bill.

[phoenix808]

You know, i wondered...I tried Souveran on top of SG on my 4Runner and honestly wasn`t as blown away as I had expected. Wonder if it`s just SG+Souveran or SG+anything...



I had good results with other combos...

[imported_Intermezzo]

Originally posted by terry@cma

I know there are some "experts" out there recommending waxing over HGSG but it just doesn`t work well.



Nice little cheap shot there... Good to know that you feel comfortable patronizing a good percentage of Autopians who have been using KSG + Souveran for years.



Yeah yeah, Souveran and KSG used to talk $hit about each other, but last I heard, they reconciled their differences and no longer hate each other.

[White968]

I have used S100 over SG many times and never had a problem of any kind but then again I have never had a problem with SG of any kind.



Mark

[mtodde]

Has anyone tried Pinnacle Signature over SG? I just bought the Klasse twins and plan to use Signature as I have a silver car. Autogeek had the twins for $40 so I bought without really thinking it through.



Unfortunately my car is not garaged so I had thought the SG would be a good thing to keep the paint protected. The car is new so the paint is still in great shape.



Now I can`t decide whether to use the twins then the Signature or to use the Signature on top of the AIO.



Any thoughts or experiences would be appreciated.

[imported_Yosemite Dan]

mtodde: This is my routine this year. In May I put on AIO and then SG. I would refresh the SG every month or so until I had 3 layers. It was the 1st time I used Klasse so I enjoyed the sealant look which was more reflective and had more "pop" than a carnauba IMO. By the time July comes I got tired of the sealant look and decide to put a carnauba(P21s) for a warmer and deeper look but IMO "less pop". The results are stunning because the last layer of SG was put on about a month prior to the wax. As mentioned previously the SG has lots of time to cure and I had no bonding issues whatsoever. You enjoy a whole new look with a carnauba over multiple layers of SG. I will put a couple of layers of P21s until October then I will start over again with AIO, SG etc when I tire of the carnuaba look.



It`s like women who get new hairdos every so often. You get tired of the same old look and switching from sealant to wax every few months keeps your car looking fresh. Both looks are great in their own way.



I think 24 hours is way too short for any reapplication of SG or a carnuaba over it. It`s like with other things in life, everybody seems to be in a hurry to do things. You live in a hot climate so I think SG is a must.

[mtodde]

Thanks for the tips and your reply. I`ve been thinking along the same lines - especially since the car isn`t garaged. The SG should really help out.



I`d like to do 2 coats of AIO an hour apart followed by 1 coat of SG...wait 1-2 weeks and apply a 2nd coat of SG...and maybe a 3rd before going to the carnuba...



I feel much more comfortable after getting your feedback.



The cool thing is that if I don`t like it I can always try something else...that`s the detailing addiction!

[imported_Yosemite Dan]

mtodde: If you decide to use a QD like Sonus(great product for SG) between SG applications to keep it fresh I would stop using it a couple of weeks before you first put on the wax to be on the safe side as Sonus contains the same acrylic of SG.



One more thing don`t forget to clay before you start over with AIO. If you already knew that then never mind.