Angst! Help Please #16 on #16 BIG NO

[Animosity]

Ok, well since a few of you said layering paste waxes wouldn`t be a problem I went ahead and put a coat of #16 ontop of #16 the next day.....



Im rather dissappointed, I spent 6hrs waxing the first day and now I have to strip it and redo all of it, the layering looks like crap and it`s all cloudy.



Any ideas?

[Scottwax]

Sounds like you layed #16 on too thick or didn`t completely buff it off. Try going over the car with some quick detailer.



I`ve done #16 over #16 several times with no problems. :nixweiss

[Animosity]

What kind of quick detailer? Can I just try buffing it off? It`s been on all night long.

[Glossequation]

Originally posted by Animosity

What kind of quick detailer? Can I just try buffing it off? It`s been on all night long.



#16 over #16 should NEVER cause cloudiness. I agree with Scottwax that you did not get all of it off.



If you put it on and its been on all night long you are in deep sh*t because #16 is a REAL pain to take off if applied to thick or left on even a bit too long.

[Animosity]

Its been on atleast 10 hours....

[Accumulator]

Yeah, I`ve never had that happen either :confused: and I`ve used #16 since forever.



Were things OK before the second layer of #16? I recall from another post that you`ve had some trouble with this detail.



Generally, I`d work two panels at a time when using #16. Put it on one; pause; put it on the second one while the first hazes over; buff it off the first one.



Always put #16 on *thin*. It hardly takes any to adequately cover/protect the paint and any excess is just wasted product and effort.



Never work the whole vehicle at a time until you`re *VERY* sure of your products and process. If you`re gonna have a problem, you want it confined to a limited area.



If you`re using MFs, you might want to switch to *VERY SOFT*, 100% cotton towels when you work on your current problem. The #16 might be pretty hard to work after all this time. Again, work a small area until you get things resolved. That way you`ll know what works/doesn`t before you tackle the whole car.



Most any good QD should help remove the presumed excess #16, you might also try distilled water or even just fogging the surface with your breath.

[imported_eggroll]

What if you just tried washing it? This would be faster.

[Animosity]

Ill wash it, I got most off and it seems okay, but I thought I removed swirls and cobwebs... there ALL still there...stupid hand waxing, but it`s slick and wet looking as heck

[imported_Blake]

#16 is a pure wax. It`s not meant to remove swirls. Remove all imperfections in the "prep" stage then wax. #16 is great stuff but it must be put on very thin and buffed as soon as it "hazes" over. I`ve layered it with success.

Don`t mistake pure waxes for sealants that you can leave on for hours to cure before buffing. Years ago I used to use Finish First and it worked best if you left it on overnight and buffed off in the morning. Can`t do that with a wax like 16.

[toneyk]

I to am new to this:cool:

One combo i used which looked really:D on my black spyder

#80/#7/#16

very deep/wet look

I,m looking at a WG combo i will be trying soon, just waiting on products

hopefully should give me a deep/wet look simlar to VM/ex-p

Dont get frustrated, i,ve made plenty of :o like #2 with lil 2600rpm orbital

The more experienced here can guess what happened

very cloudy finish

:o

live & learn

[Animosity]

I suck at swirls!

[Animosity]

After there removed once will they come back after more washing and waxing or are they pretty much gone?

[imported_eggroll]

They should stay at bay unless the polish your using has lots of oils and fillers in it. Menzerna, and the poorboy`s SSR`s are oil and filler free. The hard part is not introducing more marring while washing and drying.

[Anthony O.]

Swirls and marring are 2 different animals.



Swirls are caused by the use of a rotary and an abrasive pad/product combo (micro-scratches) and not using the proper pad/product follow up.



Marring is caused by washing and drying the car and they will almost always re-appear after a few washings and/or QD`ing. Just driving in rain and windy weather can cause marring marks as the grit travels across your paint.



You can also have a combo of swirls and marring. For the swirls you will most likely need a rotary to remove them OR if all you have is a PC you can hide them with the proper product. Now a PC can remove "minor" swirls but I have yet been able to completley remove deep swirls and scratches with a PC, just not enough heat and friction to properly level the paint.



There is a huge difference in paint reflectivity when one uses a rotary compared to a PC. The paint from a properly buffed car will have tons of gloss without glazing or waxes, they just enhance what was accomplished by the rotary work.



As for the layering of #16......well I have not used #16 in a long time and rarely do I get the chance to layer waxes. I am not really sold on the layering of paste or liquid waxes to gain more gloss or depth. Now I have used a paste wax on top of a liquid wax as that seems to give a nice finish BUT it may only be because I want to see it:nixweiss I may also layer waxes to ensure complete coverage, and different combos of products do produce different looks on the same color but I do not personally believe that layering the same wax gives more gloss or depth to the paint.



AIO I may at times layer twice but I use the first layer like a pre-cleaner, the second layer like a polish.



Anthony

[Accumulator]

Animosity- Quick addition/clarification/expatiation of what Anthony said. And Anthony, if I`m mis-stating anything or otherwise stepping on your toes, please call me on it!



Perhaps some of us are using the term "marring" in different ways. I use it in an attempt to *lessen* confusion, so I hope I`m not *increasing* confusion :o I`ve used "marring" to describe the same sort of damage in all sorts of materials (not just car stuff), so it`s easy for me to use it as a catch-all term when talking detailing.



As I use the word, "marring" is any below-top-level damage to a surface, such as paint. This would include any swirl/scratch/gouge/etching. The sort of damage that can only be rectified by abrading (or otherwise removing a layer of) the surface. So for me, swirls are a *form* of marring - a very specific form.



Anthony, being a pro, uses the classic, and "proper" definition of swirlmarks and I think he`s trying to differentiate between the different kinds of problems you might be facing. Most people just use "swirls" to refer to the sorta-circular "light scratches" or "spiderwebs" they see in paint from washing and drying and other forms of "normal" abrasion. But to a pro, this is an incorrect application of the term "swirlmarks".



As Anthony said, serious, rotary-induced swirls are hard to take out, unless your paint is very soft. But if I had to guess, that`s not what you`re dealing with.



Remove the marring/swirls/scratches/whatever with an abrasive polish and they`ll only come back if you re-introduce them. This removal is difficult, no matter how you do it. The only ways to make it less difficult is to gain experience and to use the appropriate tools and products for the job.



FWIW, Scottwax has removed all sorts of swirls/marring/whatever by hand, so it *can* be done. But that doesn`t mean that other people will be successful.



Again, hope I`m making things better instead of worse :o