Little experiment - 3M SMR, 3M Hand Glaze, Meguiars Cleaner/Wax

[ezatnova]

New to the board here, just hoping to share what I saw yesterday when trying out these three products. The surface used was my GN (black of course) which had a fresh paint job about 2 years ago. From washing and dusting, the car naturally gets micro-scratches and some swirl marks and just a bit of a haze or dullness that isn`t really noticable until you really stare in florescent lighting.

Anyway, the car is clean but I wiped an area down with quick detailer to make sure. I then rubbed a section with 3M SMR and remembered why I put the stuff on the shelf for a while! The area was much cloudier and swirly than before I used it. Then, over the same area I used the 3M Hand Glaze and, wow, it was night and day, not only did it remove what the SMR did, but it vastly improved the finish compared to the untouched areas surrounding it. I put some Pinnacle Souveran over that spot and it slickened it up a bit but really didn`t change the overall shine.

Then on an area next to this, I used some Meguiars cleaner/wax (NOTE - this is the stuff in the red bottle, the $4.99 stuff, I see they also have some in a different bottle also 16 oz, also called cleaner/wax, but it is $10 or so). I was horrified. The haze and swirling was worse than the 3M SMR. Hand Glaze to the rescue again. After the Glaze the area shined like the one next to it. I put the Souveran on that spot and again, it couldn`t even improve on the shine.

Should I steer clear of the SMR and cleaner/wax or are they doing their intended puporse (especially the SMR) and you are then EXPECTED to go over the car again with a polish/glaze to finish what the previous product started?

[beanbag]

You didn`t break down the 3M SMR enough, thus it left a haze.



Then you used IHG, which has oils to cover up the tiny scratches.



Then the cleaners in the Meg`s Cleaner Wax removed the oils again and exposed the scratches.

[ezatnova]

That`s good input... I did use the Meg`s Cleaner Wax on a spot next to the spot I worked with the 3M products though, so I could compare. So, that hazining was all on its own. :doh



I worked on the car some more last evening and it`s really hard for me to tell if it bennefits from a first application of the SMR, then the IHG and Souveran or just jumping right to the IHG and Sov. Tough call, especially since the SMR is a lot of work by hand. It was also so humid in the garage since it was storming out that after I applied the IHG on the hood, it started "fogging" every few minutes and I`d have to wipe it down again. It seemed to accumulate this "fog" only on the hood where I had worked on the car, not anywhere else. :nixweiss

[beanbag]

If you want to maintain the shine left by the IHG, then use a paste wax without cleaners, like 3M paste wax, blitz, S100, etc.

[topnotchtouch]

Originally posted by ezatnova

New to the board here, just hoping to share what I saw yesterday when trying out these three products. The surface used was my GN (black of course) which had a fresh paint job about 2 years ago. From washing and dusting, the car naturally gets micro-scratches and some swirl marks and just a bit of a haze or dullness that isn`t really noticable until you really stare in florescent lighting.

Anyway, the car is clean but I wiped an area down with quick detailer to make sure. I then rubbed a section with 3M SMR and remembered why I put the stuff on the shelf for a while! The area was much cloudier and swirly than before I used it. Then, over the same area I used the 3M Hand Glaze and, wow, it was night and day, not only did it remove what the SMR did, but it vastly improved the finish compared to the untouched areas surrounding it. I put some Pinnacle Souveran over that spot and it slickened it up a bit but really didn`t change the overall shine.

Then on an area next to this, I used some Meguiars cleaner/wax (NOTE - this is the stuff in the red bottle, the $4.99 stuff, I see they also have some in a different bottle also 16 oz, also called cleaner/wax, but it is $10 or so). I was horrified. The haze and swirling was worse than the 3M SMR. Hand Glaze to the rescue again. After the Glaze the area shined like the one next to it. I put the Souveran on that spot and again, it couldn`t even improve on the shine.

Should I steer clear of the SMR and cleaner/wax or are they doing their intended puporse (especially the SMR) and you are then EXPECTED to go over the car again with a polish/glaze to finish what the previous product started?



All of the products you have used so far are very mild and frankly should not have induced swirls unless you were using sandpaper as an applicator. The only explanation that makes sense is that the swirls were already there and you just uncovered them with the 3m SMR and/or the Cleaner Wax.

[ezatnova]

Originally posted by rjstaaf

All of the products you have used so far are very mild and frankly should not have induced swirls unless you were using sandpaper as an applicator. The only explanation that makes sense is that the swirls were already there and you just uncovered them with the 3m SMR and/or the Cleaner Wax.



The 3M SMR DEFINITELY leaves hazy swirls that only go away after applying IHG. And that is applying it with either a diaper cloth or terry cloth. I`m not saying that`s bad necessarily, after I reshine it, it looks great and does take care of the minor swirls that were there before. My clear on that car has always been super-sensitive for some reason. It was some very expensive line of clear that was put on the car, I forget exactly what. It looks like you`re looking into a pool of black water when it`s shined up...amazing, but on the other hand, if you even run a fingernail across it, there`s a mark you have to buff out.



I`ll have to post some pics of the car when it`s all done, which will be a few more days. I can only stand so many hours a night of buffing.:D

[topnotchtouch]

Originally posted by ezatnova

The 3M SMR DEFINITELY leaves hazy swirls that only go away after applying IHG. And that is applying it with either a diaper cloth or terry cloth. I`m not saying that`s bad necessarily, after I reshine it, it looks great and does take care of the minor swirls that were there before. My clear on that car has always been super-sensitive for some reason. It was some very expensive line of clear that was put on the car, I forget exactly what. It looks like you`re looking into a pool of black water when it`s shined up...amazing, but on the other hand, if you even run a fingernail across it, there`s a mark you have to buff out.



I`ll have to post some pics of the car when it`s all done, which will be a few more days. I can only stand so many hours a night of buffing.:D



I would blame the diaper or terry towels you are using before 3M SMR. 3M SMR is just barely above a pure glaze, the abrassives in it again are very mild. 3M IHG is NOT removing the swirls marks, it is covering them up. IHG is a glaze, it has no abrassives. Glazes are usually used to create high gloss but, a side benefit is that they also help in hiding light swirl marks and scratches.



Try using a new, clean foam applicator with 3M SMR and see how that works.

[ezatnova]

Originally posted by rjstaaf

I would blame the diaper or terry towels you are using before 3M SMR. 3M SMR is just barely above a pure glaze, the abrassives in it again are very mild. 3M IHG is NOT removing the swirls marks, it is covering them up. IHG is a glaze, it has no abrassives. Glazes are usually used to create high gloss but, a side benefit is that they also help in hiding light swirl marks and scratches.



Try using a new, clean foam applicator with 3M SMR and see how that works.



Hmm, ok, I will try a foam pad with the SMR tonight. Still though, it would have to be based on the SMR making the marks because if I use the other end of the same towel with IHG or other polish, it doens`t leave the marks...unless the IHG is instantly filling in the marks made by the towel on the same stroke, but that is hard to believe.

[Accumulator]

ezatnova- Welcome to Autopia. Heh heh, nice car :xyxthumbs



As rjstaaf said, I`d blame the towels/diapers. I have soft paint on one of my cars, and anything except the softest, plushest MFs will mar it.



3M`s SMR seems to be a funny product- some people swear by it, others swear *at* it. As for the Meg`s Cleaner-Wax, I *thought* it was supposed to be non-abrasive :confused: You might want to ask Mike Phillips on the Meguiar`s forum here.



At any rate, I`d quit doing what you`re doing, as you`re gonna run out of clear if you keep marring it and then trying to *remove* the marring.



If it were mine (besides putting a lot of miles on it ;) ) I`d switch products and applicators and get some MF towels (plush for product removal, WW for drying). I think I`d use one of the "finer"/milder 1Z polishes and top it with a "heavy" wax like Meg`s #16. This would be a good long-term approach for your soft clear over black. There are other, similar approaches, but that would be my first choice.



*Or*, you could keep using the 3M IHG to hide the marring, and top it with the Meg`s #16. The swirls, etc. would eventually come back, but you wouldn`t be doing any real damage as long as you used the right applicators and toweling. But you really need to lose the diapers and the terry.

[ezatnova]

Originally posted by Accumulator

ezatnova- Welcome to Autopia. Heh heh, nice car :xyxthumbs



As rjstaaf said, I`d blame the towels/diapers. I have soft paint on one of my cars, and anything except the softest, plushest MFs will mar it.



3M`s SMR seems to be a funny product- some people swear by it, others swear *at* it. As for the Meg`s Cleaner-Wax, I *thought* it was supposed to be non-abrasive :confused: You might want to ask Mike Phillips on the Meguiar`s forum here.



At any rate, I`d quit doing what you`re doing, as you`re gonna run out of clear if you keep marring it and then trying to *remove* the marring.



If it were mine (besides putting a lot of miles on it ;) ) I`d switch products and applicators and get some MF towels (plush for product removal, WW for drying). I think I`d use one of the "finer"/milder 1Z polishes and top it with a "heavy" wax like Meg`s #16. This would be a good long-term approach for your soft clear over black. There are other, similar approaches, but that would be my first choice.



*Or*, you could keep using the 3M IHG to hide the marring, and top it with the Meg`s #16. The swirls, etc. would eventually come back, but you wouldn`t be doing any real damage as long as you used the right applicators and toweling. But you really need to lose the diapers and the terry.



Ugh, glad I just bought a whole bag of the diaper-soft cotton towels at Pepboys. :rolleyes:

Can you get these MF towels at normal places like pepboys? What do you mean by "WW" (for drying)? The diaper ones I used now do NOTHING for absortion so I use terry cloth to wipe up the quick detailer, and after wasing, I use an Absorber to dry the water.

[Buick_guy]

"WW" stands for waffle weave. They are supposed to work good, but I haven`t tried one yet. I just use a chamios, and it works for me, since I`m extremely anal about keeping it clean.



Good luck.

[Accumulator]

Yeah, WW= "waffle weave". They work like nothing else (and I`ve tried most everything else..). I dunno about local sources for MFs, I get mine from on-line vendors...but I`ve heard there are some OK ones, just can`t remember which they were.

[bluetwo]

for most of the acronyms used on the board, go here:



http://www.autopia.org/display.php?file=acronyms.htm



you`ll see people referring to meg`s #6 or #26 or #9, IHG, WW, and a host of other things. very handy reference.

[ezatnova]

Well.... who`da thunk it. I tried applying 3M SMR with a foam pad and removing it with the other side of the foam pad and it really didn`t elave the swirly haze that it did when applying it with diaper or terry cloth. On the other hand, it didn`t do much of anything all together...which I guess is more or less what the general concensus here is! I wonder if it did more for removing swirl scratches by using the more abrasive towel (I believe it does say on the directions to use a terry cloth towel). The odd thing is, how it hazed/microscratched my paint with the terry cloth and SMR, but if I take a bare terry cloth and rub the car....no scratches or haze. Something with the combination of the two cause it... again, maybe this is how it is SUPPOSED to work. :nixweiss



Anyway, one more door pannel to go tonight. About 8+ hours total into polishing/waxing so far this week...my arms hurt! I will post some pics of the GN when she is done.

[topnotchtouch]

If you got some quality terry towels you won`t see the haze or scratches. Anything you buy from the auto parts store is going to scratch/haze. No matter what the label says, they are not 100% cotton. You need some quality cotton terry towels, preferably brands like Cannon or Fieldcrest.



I usually prefer foam applicators for applying product and microfiber towels for removing.