Questions regarding bonding Klasse twins/Souveran

[TGates]

I currently have one coat of KAIO on my car right now, topped by two coats of SG. I want to put some Pinnacle Souveran Paste Wax on top for the extra dazzle, but am unsure about what will happen when I want to add more KSG for durability`s sake, since we all know the Souveran doesn`t last long.



Will the bonding be an issue here, or will the SG go on top of the Souveran`d paint just fine?



Should I add another coat of SG just to be safe, then only use the Souveran for several months, until I feel it is time to do the whole AIO/SG process over again?

[2wheelsx2]

I wouldn`t worry about it. If you want to add another coat of SG, I would, but I don`t think that in terms of durability, the Soveran and SG are anywhere close. The Souveran can be gone months before the SG is. So, if you are worried about bonding, just wait 2 months or more, and then give it a good strong wash with car soap, clay and get at her.



But I suspect, being on this board ensures that you`ll be waxing every month at least, which means the SG will always be topped, which makes it a non-issue.

[TGates]

I`m not so much worried about the durability, as there will ALWAYS either be a fresh coat of Souveran OR Klasse S/G...my main concern was how the Souveran was going to act on top of the KSG. I.E. streaking, etc, when going back and forth between coats of Souveran and SG.



I guess my question is, are they interchangable like Zaino Z2 and Z5, even though in this case, one is a carnauba and the other is not.



I will probably be reapplying the Klasse AIO every two or three months, even though I know that is overkill. At that time, I will clay, use a cleansing lotion (Pinnacle or P21S), KAIO, KSG, and Souveran...with some Crystal Mist spirtz thrown in for good measure.



So, probably, what I`ll do is get two coats of AIO, two or three coats of SG, and then use the Souveran every couple of weeks, until I start the process over again in two or three months.

[Jesstzn]

As far as I know as long as there is Souveran reminants on there the SG isn`t going to bond to it.



If your going to do the Souveran every couple weeks then jump back to AIO etc your ok cuz the AIO will lift it all.



I don`t think you can go back and forth between SG and Souveran like Z5 & Z2.

[TGates]

Originally posted by Jesstzn

As far as I know as long as there is Souveran reminants on there the SG isn`t going to bond to it.



If your going to do the Souveran every couple weeks then jump back to AIO etc your ok cuz the AIO will lift it all.



I don`t think you can go back and forth between SG and Souveran like Z5 & Z2.



Thank ya much...that`s what I was looking for. My next question is......if everyone rants and raves about how great Souveran looks over Klasse....yet, the two won`t bond together, how does this work? Will they just not layer, or will the Souveran quickly be washed off because it can`t bond to a Klasse`d finish?

[Jesstzn]

I thik there is no issue withthe Souveran sticking to the Klasse .. no different than sticking to reg paint. Its the SG that has an issue crosslinking to the Souveran. The sealants like a clean surface.

[TGates]

Hmmm....interesting. I don`t know then. I was always under the impression that the Souveran was used for that final show car finale over the Klasse twins (AIO and SG). Sort of like the icing on the cake, if you will :doh



So you believe the Souveran only has problems bonding with the SG but not the AIO, others feel they will not bond at all, and others say there is no problem making an acrylic/carnauba orgy all over the paint. I don`t want to be the guinea pig to find out for sure on my BLACK car....



EDIT: I re-read your post, and if I get what you`re sayin, you`re sayin that I can apply the Souveran OVER the Klasse twins, but the SG can`t really be applied again once the Souveran has been applied until the AIO is used again....

[TGates]

On a side note....we all know that AIO has come cleaning qualities in it. If I were to Dawn, clay, and then SKIP a paintwork cleansing lotion (Pinnacle, or P21S), and go straight for the AIO, twice, followed by some SG, then later some Souveran, would I kick myself later for not using the paintwork lotion? The car was clayed very shortly after I got it last year (its a 2003), and I will be claying again to start this process over, and the car only has 2300 miles on it, and stays in the garage.



Is it safe to say I can skip the lotion and go straight for the AIO?

[lisricka]

I also have a black car which is garaged. I tried the twins with the P21S. It attracted a lot of dust. I have since gone back to AIO and 3 coats of SG with nothing on top, and it looks great and attracts less dust.

[2wheelsx2]

Originally posted by BlackSunshine

On a side note....we all know that AIO has come cleaning qualities in it. If I were to Dawn, clay, and then SKIP a paintwork cleansing lotion (Pinnacle, or P21S), and go straight for the AIO, twice, followed by some SG, then later some Souveran, would I kick myself later for not using the paintwork lotion? The car was clayed very shortly after I got it last year (its a 2003), and I will be claying again to start this process over, and the car only has 2300 miles on it, and stays in the garage.



Is it safe to say I can skip the lotion and go straight for the AIO?



Yup. AIO is a cleaner, so it would do like PPCL or GEPC, but not leave oils behind like some cleansers. I don`t know if PPCL does, but GEPC has been documented to have some oils, causing Z bonding issues. However, there is no problem with AIO`ing right on top of it. The issue is that the AIO would clean everything off to bare paint, just wasting your product and your time.

[6cyl's_of_fury]

Originally posted by BlackSunshine

On a side note....we all know that AIO has come cleaning qualities in it. If I were to Dawn, clay, and then SKIP a paintwork cleansing lotion (Pinnacle, or P21S), and go straight for the AIO, twice, followed by some SG, then later some Souveran, would I kick myself later for not using the paintwork lotion? The car was clayed very shortly after I got it last year (its a 2003), and I will be claying again to start this process over, and the car only has 2300 miles on it, and stays in the garage.



Is it safe to say I can skip the lotion and go straight for the AIO?



Id even skip the dawn wash. As famously quoted by Anthony O

"Dawn is for dishes, leave it in the kitchen" :bow

Just do a normal wash, clay then tidy it up with the AIO. Put down your SG layers ( 2 or 3 ), then top with ya wax and reapply the wax on a monthly basis. Provided your wash regime doesnt induce a lot of swirls, that will easily see you through 6 months, at which time you can strip it back with AIO and start over. :xyxthumbs

[TGates]

Awesome :xyxthumbs This board is great...I`m really glad I found it. I thought I was the only one around with this sickness...errr..I mean, hobby :p

[6cyl's_of_fury]

Nope, relax get settled and enjoy the ride, your amongst "friends" now....

[C_Rock77]

From what I`ve gathered, Souveran, like any other carnuba, will interfere with the bonding of SG. For instance....If you have AIO/SG/Souv, then you cannot put another layer of SG on top of the Souveran. The Souveran (or any other wax) must be stripped off for SG to bond properly. One of Klasse AIO`s main purposes is to clean and prep the surface for Klasse SG to bond. However, it`s not like you can readily use Klasse AIO on top of your Souveran. It will strip everything down to the bare paint, and leave a bit of acrylic of it`s own.



From what I`ve gathered about Souveran and other waxes bonding is that you need to strip them off in order to apply more SG (or UPP). A good, strong dish soap will do this without doing much (if any) damage to the Sealant under the wax. The acrylic will withstand the dish soap and leave a well-prepped surface for the subsequent layers of SG.



I fairly recently was researching this subject and found this information. I`d detailed my car and applied AIO/SG X 3/P21S. I was curious about possibly applying another coat or 2 of SG or UPP, but was curious as to whether or not dish soap would strip the SG (and thus negating some of my previous work). My research turned up that it would not strip the SG, but would the P21S.

[spotter]

If you use AIO and then 2 or more layers of SG there won`t be any reason to use anything else other than a wax topper for the next 6 months or so because the Klasse twins aren`t going anywhere. The Klasse will look just as good as the day you applied it. Just add the wax when needed.