Interesting Observation On Autopians... Including Myself

[jerry@robs]

I noticed how we almost always credit the final topping products instead of giving credit to a great polish or compound...



While we all know that without the compounds and polishes, all the Z, K, S100, NXT, Souveran won`t mean squat...



Just an observation... Kinda pointless post actually hehe.



Here`s a 911 Turbo with AIO + Z2 (Prepped with DACP, Menz FP)



http://tsikot.com/forums/gallery/thumbnails/542-m.jpg

[Scottwax]

I often wish I could stop at Meguiars SFP #82, I like the look so much and know that the addition glaze and topper will add maybe 5-10% more shine, depth, etc.

[shaf]

Ha! This kind of mentality is not really limited to Autopians - it`s something the public in general is guilty of. Wax always gets all the glory while polish does all the work. As we all know, it`s all in the prep, but why do you suppose it is that whenever detailing newbies want to spiff up their ride, they often invariably ask, "What kind of wax should I buy to make my car shine again?" ;)

[imported_Terry]

Originally posted by theveed

.



Here`s a 911 Turbo with AIO + Z2 (Prepped with DACP, Menz FP)



http://tsikot.com/forums/gallery/thumbnails/542-m.jpg [/B] Beautiful automobile..You are so right about the importance of choosing the product & degree of prep.I am trying to acquire a client who has a 911 Turbo. He only trusts the Dealership to detail his car right now even though I detail his neighbors gorgeous CL500 every 3 months. I am dying to get my hands on his 911. I must control myself...." Though shall not covet thy neighbors 911.":cool:

[imported_memnuts]

I always shout out that Prep is the key and point out those that seemingly always Prep before presenting a personal review. When I read that "this product was tested on an unprepped vehicle" my interest is definitely decreased on the conclusions of the review. Good or Bad.

What really bothers me is the viewings of a LSP product that is tested on un-prep vehicles and reviews that tote their disappointment with said product. Yes, most will say that they failed to prep and were relying on their previous prep 4 months ago and after several swirling (though minor for a true Autopian) inducing washes since this last Prep. I was quilty of this when I first tried Zaino :o and was not impressed. Nevertheless, knowing the fault in my initial testing procedure I held back my public opinion on this product in order not to skew opinion on this product. Basically I came to the conclusion that my technique (lack of Prep) was the flaw not the product.

Yes we spend a lot of time discussing the final step in finish enhancement and I believe that is because most of us realize the importance of Prep.

Without proper meticulous Prep we are just normal Joe weekend car washers not detailers.



Maybe a good marketing rule should be that new LSP be introduced in the Spring where the number of reviews are heavily weighed towards vehicles that received proper prep prior to usage and reviewing said products. Not fair to those of us that have the facility or good winter weather to Prep all year. This may decrease the number of unfair comparison to products that were tested under ideal conditions from the previous detailing season. Then again such disparity in results maybe the key in emphasizing the importance of what this thread is all about - PREP :nixweiss JMHO

[C. Charles Hahn]

Of course it is all in the prepwork to get a truly high-quality result; yet I feel that how a topper product performs on an un-prepped vehicle speaks volumes about the topper`s quality. Chances are, if a topper looks "okay" on an un-prepped surface, it will look "good" on a prepped one. If the topper looks "good" on an un-prepped surface however, I`d have to say it will look "GREAT" on a prepped surface. Of course this is all dependent on having a well-prepped surface in the end however.

[imported_memnuts]

Welcome back SLD :wavey

How`s school?



What is a topper? There seems to be many correct interpretations.



My definition of a LSP is a product that protects the appearance I have created or restored by my Prep work. As my avatar states, I try to perfect the optics of the paint to the point where there is a minimal amount of alterations in the light`s refraction by surface marring. In other words I try to create the true hue of the base-color coat by perfecting the protective lens known as the clearcoat. I expect little ( the last 5-10% enhancement) from the LSP. Because of my criteria, expecting a significant improve on an un-prepped surface is asking more than I expect from a product. :nixweiss

[imported_ajbarnes]

Originally posted by Shiny Lil Detlr

Chances are, if a topper looks "okay" on an un-prepped surface, it will look "good" on a prepped one. If the topper looks "good" on an un-prepped surface however, I`d have to say it will look "GREAT" on a prepped surface.





Very well put.:up

[jerry@robs]

Wow, nice insights on my silly post hehe...



It`s so true though... Usually if a black car comes in the shop, it`s super swirled like this E30 BMW we received yesterday.



http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/9/web/165000-165999/165153_185_full.jpg



after compounding and polishing it... it looked like this



http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/9/web/165000-165999/165153_186_full.jpg



with AIO, SG



http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/9/web/165000-165999/165153_184_full.jpg



The topper made the surface look BETTER by filling in even finer gaps creating an even smoother surface, but by itself, I doubt the E30 would even come close to what the post-polishing surface would look... And to think that the polish and compounds are cheaper than the K twins...

[Scottwax]

Nice work! Getting rid of all those spider swirls sure makes a difference in the clarity of the paint.

[imported_NHBFAN]

I think "toppers" lend themselves to discussion in a forum more readily.



Here at autopia we understand the importance of prep work, but prepping is a sequence that is dependent on the condition of each individual vehicle, so it`s more difficult to share experiences gained through prep processes on a forum because each vehicle is unique.



"Toppers" is a more universal topic. It’s understood that you are referring to products used after all your prep work is complete.

[imported_memnuts]

Originally posted by NHBFAN



"Toppers" is a more universal topic. It’s understood that you are referring to products used after all your prep work is complete.



Totally agree.

So is it fair or valid experience to test a topper on a un-prepped finish and reach a performance evaluation?



Seems equivalent to testing a drag radial in the snow and concluding that its lack of performance in this unreal situation will predict its performance at the track. :nixweiss JMHO

[boywonder]

That`s the thing that Bman (you know who you are ;) ), Sqard, endus, and I stress on the Maxima.org detailing forum.



Here`s a few examples of recent details :

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/4/web/208000-208999/208846_207_full.jpg



The Glacier Pearl one was prepped mainly with a clay bar and AIO then topped with SG and S100.



http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/1/web/133000-133999/133107_299_full.jpg

This Majestic Blue got AIO and SG topped with P21S recently



There`s another who prepped his Super Black `02 with Menzerna, topped it with AIO and SG, then topped with S100. He wants Souveran as well. :D

[C. Charles Hahn]

Originally posted by blkZ28Conv

Welcome back SLD :wavey

How`s school?



What is a topper? There seems to be many correct interpretations.



My definition of a LSP is a product that protects the appearance I have created or restored by my Prep work. As my avatar states, I try to perfect the optics of the paint to the point where there is a minimal amount of alterations in the light`s refraction by surface marring. In other words I try to create the true hue of the base-color coat by perfecting the protective lens known as the clearcoat. I expect little ( the last 5-10% enhancement) from the LSP. Because of my criteria, expecting a significant improve on an un-prepped surface is asking more than I expect from a product. :nixweiss



:wavey school is great :up



I think your definition of a LSP is about accurate - however I wouldn`t say that expecting a significant improvement from application is unfair. A product should be able to work well on its own in order to please the general public (who won`t always be doing the proper prep-work as autopians will) as well as work to full potential on a fully prepared surface.



I`ve always said, given any prep products and tools I wanted, and only having access to Turtle Wax or some other dollar-store variety wax, I could make a car look ten times better than someone with no prep products and S100/Souveran/Other high-dollar high-quality waxes/toppers.

[imported_memnuts]

So true SLD. Unfortunately, I do not believe our eyes (judgement) can be reverted back to the level of appearance of the average public. We are victims of our own search and success of trying to find that ultimate shine. What we may call a lousy result may get a WOW from "Joe I don`t see any swirls" car washer. This reaction is normally reserve by us after doing a complete prep and even then is only short-lived because we continually reach for the next plateau. That why this vocation/hobby is so much fun.:xyxthumbs



Glad school is going well and without saying learn as much as you can. :D