Considerations for testing/comparing waxes

[CRXSi90]

I picked up a hood from the bodyshop to practice with my new rotary on, so once I feel sufficently educated from that, I think I`ll divide the hood into 6 sections and apply a product to each. For this test, I think I`ll prep the hood as well as I can since that would be the context in which I would use the products. -good idea?



Also, help me think of some things to look for. Personally, initial results don`t matter that much to me. What really matters is after the first wash. If there is anything profound discovered on application, I`d be sure to take not of that, otherwise, I don`t think I`d care.



-ease of use

-appearance after one and more washes

-beading/sheeting of water

-apparent durability



That is all I can think of...can anyone else add to the list?



Things that I have and will include are:

-Hi-Temp Terminator

-S100 Paste Wax

-Turtle Wax Finish 2001

-Turtle Wax Super HardShell

-Meguiar`s Gold Class Liquid Wax

-Zymol Cleaner Wax



Is 6 sections too many to divide a medium sized hood into? I`m thinking two lines down the hood and one across. I suppose I could omit the Turtle Wax products, but I think they make an interesting baseline. I know the products aren`t exactly what you`d like to see in a test, but they are what I have, so what the heck?



Also, would it be interesting/realivent to draw a line with permanant marker and "use" the product over it to see how much it cleans? It`d be kinda hard to do it perfectly equally on all, but still might be interesting. Any way to test for layering?



As I Recall, Mike Phillips did a similar experiment on the trunk of a car and wasn`t able to tell much difference after the first wash. I`d like to see if I get the same results.



Yes, it floats my boat.

[bcwang]

I`d be interested in seeing how mothers hotwheels or reflections compares to those other waxes.

[thinksnow]

Six sections seems okay, but since you have a hood, ensure that the center section of the hood is identical to the sides. My Honda`s original 17 year old paint is shiny, but the hood is starting to show signs of age in the center (heat from engine?). Also, I would use competitive products like #26 v. S100 v. PS or UPP v. BF v. EX. UNLESS you are trying to show the durability of different products. Cleaner waxes will not stand up in competition against any function-specific carnuba or sealant.



Additionally, I would give the hood some very good prep work to be fair to the various "toppings." If you test a cleaner wax against something like S100, the cleaner actually gets the advantage if the hood was oxidized or just plain dirty.



On a side note, how did you swing the free hood? I have called a couple of places and they don`t seem to be all that interested.

[CRXSi90]

Thanks for the tips. I think I`ll just stick with the products I have on the list now and see what happens. Sometime before winter last year, I did the Turtle Wax Finish 2001 on the passenger`s side of the car, and Meguiar`s Gold Class on the driver`s side. I pretty much forgot about the test, but when taking the car out from storage in the spring, I noticed that the passenger`s side of the car was actually still beading, and the driver`s wasn`t doing too well. That came as a surprise to me. Turtle Wax Finish 2001 > Meguiars Gold Class Liquid...at least under those circumstances. Gold Class isn`t known for it`s durability, anyway, a fact I didn`t know at the time. Things that I`d be interested in are stuff like Zymol C/W v.s. Meguiars GC, S100 [good quality carnauba] v.s. Hi Temp Terminator.



Well, I got the hood from work [I`m a wash boy during the summer, and then clean the shop floor during the school year], but I have a feeling that they would have given it to me even if I didn`t work there. Have you asked where you`ve had some body work done? Just a thought, you might have better luck at run-down places, or maybe smaller dealerships.



The test hood is red and off a Pontaic Grand-Something, I think. I`d guess that it is about a `97; it seems to have some swirls and minor oxidation, just enough so the reflections aren`t as crisp as a freshly polished section. It also has more fallout than I`m used to seeing on my car, and I didn`t clay the first time I tried to polish. Polishing seems to have gotten rid of the oxidation without claying, but I`ll double check that.

[thinksnow]

Unfortunately, I have had to get body work done at a local place ($10000 worth of damage to my first car, and it was new) but had a TERRIBLE experience with them when they were getting money from me. Needless to say, with the same manager working there now and no money exchanging hands, the level of cooperation equals that of the Iraqi Information Minister ("What car hoods? There are no car hoods here").

[Mike_Phillips]

Originally posted by CRXSi90

As I Recall, Mike Phillips did a similar experiment on the trunk of a car and wasn`t able to tell much difference after the first wash. I`d like to see if I get the same results.



Yes, it floats my boat.



Here`s the link to that page...



http://www.autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29022&perpage=18&pagenumber=13



I have noticed that the visual appearance results of any product seems to fall off pretty fast after the first wash of any product. That doesn`t mean their isn`t protection still sitting on the surface, or better yet, in the microscopic surface imperfections, indices, pores and fissures.



Thus...



"Find something you like and use it often"



If you like it, then it`s obvious that it looks good in your eyes.



If you use it often, then your car will always look great!





This kind of has something to do with the topic of Layering



Some people think they can put 30/60/90 coats of wax on their finish and each coat adds more protection, and visually increase beauty without end. I don`t believe this is true. I think the surface of an automotive paint can only hold so much wax before the law of diminishing returns kicks in. After a certain point, all you`re doing is wasting your time and your product of choice.



Here is what I think people are actually doing but labeling it "Layering".



I believe that after your prep work, (if any), and after 1, 2, maybe even 3 successive coats at any one time period, (one hour, or one week, as long as nothing else has come into contact with the finish), that you hit a plateau.



After you reach this plateau, more coats, or application will not continually make the finish deeper, darker, more clear, more reflective. 100% deep, dark clear black paint is 100%. It’s as dark and clear and deep and reflective as its going to get.



Adding more coats just uses up more product. It might be fun, but that’s all.



After some time goes by, and the finish diminishes, you can apply more product and restore the finish to the previous achieved plateau… again.



Some call this layering, I would call it restoring the finish to its maximum potential.



The more often you do this, the easier and faster it will be to do, and your finish will look great, well… more often.



It’s only when time goes by and your finish is exposed to the outdoors, repeated washings, or exposure to inclement weather that your finish will degrade and you can in fact see a difference in the before and after upon adding another coat of product. This then is interpreted by some as layering, or making the finish deeper, darker, glossier, more clear, more reflective, slicker, greater water beading etc.



But in fact, (I believe), all that is happening is the previously reached plateau is being restored.



Does that make sense?



Perhaps while your conducting your test you can apply layer after layer of any of your chosen waxes and after about the third application, look to see if the 4th and 5th and 6th and so on actually are increasing the beauty of the finish?



Perhaps you can also see if adding more and more application of a chosen wax, or polish, or paint protectant, results in a noticeable and even measurable film build?



Mike

[CRXSi90]

Thanks for finding the link to that post, it would have taken me forever! [look at that thread length!]



I like the "Find something you like and use it often" notion. I`m hoping to stick to it better on my car and my family member`s. By the time I get done washing, I"m usually pretty burnt out, and the sun`s position has changed so much that it is hard to do anything. I`ll be able to take advantage of the PC and rotary this summer, plus if I say it will be, it will. [as long as it is in my control] The I used the PC once or twice on my car for waxing. It made all the difference in how it looked and the ease of removal of the product. It was Gold Class Liquid and I was very happy with the results. For some reason, I just couldn`t do that by hand. I`m looking foreward to this summer.



Layering: I also believe in the law of deminishing returns. I can`t see how you could build up a film build with how waxes work. Especially carnaubas. I mean, you wipe a product on, then you wipe it off. What stayed? I think it is what clung to the surface. That includes pores/fissures/imperfections like you said. So lets say you wax and have wax cling to the pores of the paint...what does the top [exposed] side of that look like? I imagine it is perfectly flat.



So what happens when you remove a product? I imagine it being kind of like filling a crack with putty. You are wiping along the [b]paint and you come to a pore. Of course your towel doesn`t dig down into the pore to remove the paint. It just glides right over, leaving the wax in the pore. The exposed surface is more or less flat now.



I suppose it may be similar to autobody work, though. You don`t throw a huge scoop of Bondo into a hole and let it cure. To my understanding, you add it in layers. Wax and sealant have solvents so I suppose they are subject to shrinkage. I have trouble visualizing on this small of a scale, but the wax in the pore might even crack due to the shrinkage.



Hmm, it feels like I just reinvented the wheel. Well, I hope I brought some new ideas in, or at least helped someone gain their own outlook. I guess it would be nice if the layering topic could be settled once and for all, but I think unless someone does some microscopic testing, people will continue to think what they want. My theory makes sense to me, and I suppose that is all that matters.



Kevin

[pontman43]

I found this by mistake and was wondering if you did this and if you have results.

[CRXSi90]

Nope, I`m better at making plans than following through. I found I`m really bad at evaluating the difference between products. It all looks so similar to me. Sorry for the disappointment.

Kevin