Sealants vs. Waxes - NEED help, calling all gurus:

[Inzane]

I`m still a newbie and I joined only weeks ago, and still learning and digesting information. But, I`ve gotten myself into a heated discussion/debate with a friend of mine.



I have a non-metallic black 93 300ZXTT, with less than perfect paint: rock chips, swirls, scratches etc. I have no PC yet, but may get one next year (thanks to the Autopia obsession :) ). So far my main experience has been Meguiar`s products, both consumer line and some of the professional line - like #7, #9 (recently picked up #26, but haven`t used it yet). I plan to give the car a full repaint in 2-3 years, but want to learn how to better maintain and polish/wax the car`s finish in the interim.



My friend just got a red 91 NSX, and immediately got the whole Zaino kit, presumably from doing some research on nsxprime.com and getting some fellow owners opinions. So he did the whole dawn wash, clay, and then two coats of Z5 + the ZFX, appied with the Zaino applicators and removed with 100% cotton terry towels. He was very happy with his results and I saw and felt the car too and had to admit it looked and felt great. He claimed that the whole procedure was not too bad, not too time consuming and very easy to apply and remove.





Anyway... the point of this whole post: my friend doesn`t seem to understand my reluctance to immediately jump on the sealant/Zaino bandwagon. I`ve been trying to convey a jumble of opinions and observations that the masses here have made (recognizing that him & I may not be representative of the aveage member, since neither of us are pros or super-an#l DIY detailers... yet).



Can you guys give me the black and white no-nonsense advantages and disadvantages of using the sealant route vs. the wax route, and even the Zaino route vs. other sealants (eg. Klasse, Meg`s #20, etc.)? I`m looking for objective opinions from both sealant and wax users, and I`ve heard that even die-hard Zaino users will freely admit the disadvantages of their product. Likewise, wax users still can see the benefit of the sealants even though they don`t use them.



Please touch on:

- depth of shine & color

- durability

- water beading and/or sheeting

- dust attraction

- ease of application and removable

- compatibility with other products

etc.



Thank you very much!

:xyxthumbs

[imported_BretFraz]

www.thewaxtest.org



$9.95 will answer almost all your questions, plus be good reading in the process. You and your friend will learn a lot from the report.



The questions you are asking are some of the most hotly debated in our little hobby. You`ll get lots of opinions but not much objectivity. Everyone has a favorite and some of us change favorites regularly. Some of your questions are quantifiable, some aren`t.



My two cents:



Durability - No wax can touch a sealant for durability. Even the best carnauba waxes only last a few weeks before they`re seriously degraded. A top quality sealant, properly maintained, can last months.



Beading/Sheeting - Simply put, some products are designed to bead water, some sheet. It`s up to the product mfr to decide how they want their product to perform. Personally, I think every product should be designed to bead water so the average consumer can tell how well the product is performing. But some mfr`s have a different view and they develop their products accordingly.



Dust Attraction - Very difficult to quantify outside a lab or controlled environment. Things like geography, weather conditions, paint type, etc., can greatly alter this issue. Individual experience doesn`t mean much because of the number of variables and the inability to control them.



Ease of Use - Hard to quantify without a clear methodology. What`s easy for you may be hard for me or vice versa. Define "easy". Some think it refers to physical activity, others think it refers to complexity, number of steps/coats.



Compatibility - I don`t know of too many products that are incompatible with one another. About the only situation I can think of is using a sealant on top of a wax or oil-based product like glaze. Sealants need a clean surface to bond to. Beyond that I think most products are compatible with others.



I figure the above will get the party started. I`ll be interested to read comments from others.

[imported_kgb]

I LOVE using Poorboy`s EX. It is a sealant with Carnuba in it already.

[weegee]

Bret pretty much touched on most of it.



I`ll add that based on many pictures I`ve seen, sealants have more of a plasticy (sp?) type shine. More bling, bling, whereas carnubas have a deeper, wetter, richer shine. Obviously different colors and different cars may react differently, but this is based in my own experience and by many pictures I`ve seen posted here.



In all honesty, I think the average person should probably use a sealant. If you`re more of a car freak, I think the carnuba route is the way to go because it requires more frequent applications. There`s so many factors though. Luckily I`m in a good climate city so it`s easy for me to say I`ll wash my car weekly year round and apply wax every 3-4 weeks. My attitude might be different if I couldn`t stand out in the cold for 4 months at a time.



p.s. another EX user here and so far so good. Check out my pics in the click and brag forum.

[shaf]

While some people will swear that "sealants have a plasticky, bright shine" and that "carnauba has a warm, deep, wet look", that is all a matter of personal opinion, the colour of the paint, and how susceptable you are to bias. ;)



A lot of people (myself included) have trouble telling the difference between the "look" of different products. The only things you can do is go by people`s opinion, or try it for yourself and see how you like it.



Otherwise the only other things that is probably different between a sealant system and a "traditional" system is that the traditional way follows a different routine/process, and includes a glazing step, which most feel works better to hide swirls and defects than sealants can. This is a totally moot point if you`re talking about well-prepped Autopian-standard finishes however....



HTH

[rstype]

Originally posted by 4DSC

While some people will swear that "sealants have a plasticky, bright shine" and that "carnauba has a warm, deep, wet look", that is all a matter of personal opinion, the colour of the paint, and how susceptable you are to bias. ;)



A lot of people (myself included) have trouble telling the difference between the "look" of different products. The only things you can do is go by people`s opinion, or try it for yourself and see how you like it.



Otherwise the only other things that is probably different between a sealant system and a "traditional" system is that the traditional way follows a different routine/process, and includes a glazing step, which most feel works better to hide swirls and defects than sealants can. This is a totally moot point if you`re talking about well-prepped Autopian-standard finishes however....



HTH



Brian took the words right out of my mouth.



I must admit that I`ve grown and went through a lot as a detailer. My views have certainly changed - often going around in circles. Now after sorting through tidal-waves of opinion, and experiencing all sides of the bandwagon, I feel as if I finally have a firm position on my detailing viewpoint.



As of today, I *cannot* tell the difference between the warm carnauba look and the sterile sealant look. I honestly believe it`s a psychological thing. I also honestly doubt that one can "spot the Zaino plastic look a mile away," etc. In fact, I`m beginning to have a hard time noticing the positive effects of wax on a perfectly prepped surface.



JMO

[fidelfs]

I have 2 cars one has wax the other Zaino.



Why I like wax: It allows me to work only in sections of my car. I don`t have to worry about layers. I have a problem in my trunk left from last weekend. I will fix it the next one. No big deal. Wax gives me flexibility.

If I have a car with sealant like Zaino I have to remove all Zaino or just the part with the problem then apply Z1 (Not z5 because the amount will be so little than I can not use ZFX) for the first layer. Apply many Z2 layers to match the rest or start from scratch.



Sealant: Durability. I applied to my car that is outside the garage at night. I just wash it and apply more layers. It will be protected.

Why I don`t like wax in this car. With Texas sun the wax will be vanish to soon and the car will be unprotected.



It all depends and what you want. One system is not better than the other one. You need to know what to expect and so this will dictate your approach.



:xyxthumbs

[chris0626]

Wow! I`m so proud of the responses in this thread so far -- no zealots, no polemics, no Zaino-nuts or Zaino-bashers. I`ll try to maintain the high standards that bretfraz and others have set.



I have an "interesting" stable of cars, and they all get different treatments.



The old white Jag is a concours champ and has been a Zaino queen since I got her 15 months ago. Reasons: She has a near-flawless paint job (no swirls, etchings, etc.), and I wanted something VERY low-maintenance on her paint so that my show-prep work could focus on more high-maintenance areas like engine-detailing, trim, etc. So all I had to do was prep the paint, then apply Zaino, then periodically maintain Zaino wash, Z6, periodic claying. Even though she`s kept outdoors 24/7, for me it was a no-muss/no-fuss solution.



Also, like 4DSC and others said, I personally think the "Zaino=plastic" vs "carnuaba=warm" dichotomy is a completely false one. If you`re interested, check out my photo gallery for some of the Zaino`d white Jag pix; I think they look warm and deep. You`ll also see in Brad B`s pix that Zaino looks dynamite on rich red paint as well as on light colors.



The old Benz is my daily driver, so (since discovering Autopia) I`ve played around with a variety of products on her -- glazes, carnaubas (S100), etc. But this month, as I started to feel winter approaching, I grabbed the polymer products. Why? Because I`ve seen how that polymers withstand the rigors of winter -- salt, long periods between washing/QDing/etc. -- and less-active detailing better than waxes ever could.



BTW, when I decided to give the Benz a polymer sealant last weekend, I decided (based on many positive reviews here at Autopia) to do the Klasse AIO/SG routine. In my MOST HUMBLE opinion, those folks who say Klasse is easy and Zaino is hard must be ironclad muscle-men. The Klasse took me tons more time and muscle-work than Zaino ever did. Results are pretty much equivalent, but -- for my money -- the "hours-per-bling" edge definitely goes to Zaino.



Which leads me to a couple of questions for you, Inzane:

1. Is your car garaged?

2. Do you drive it daily?

3. How often do you mess with the paintwork?

Answers to those questions will help people focus their comments.



On to my experience: On the old red Jag and Ghia, I haven`t yet used a sealant, because their paintwork is horrible and (like fidelfs already said) I want to be able to just keep polishing and fine-tuning the paintwork before I apply a polymer.



I hope these ramblings will be somewhat helpful.

[Scottwax]

You should also consider your enviroment.



1. Is your car garaged at night? Parking garage in the day? Sits outside 24/7?



2. Enviromental factors like acid rain and industrial fallout, tree sap and the like.



If your car is regularly subjected to acid rain and industrial fallout or sits outside all the time, a polymer or sealant is your best bet. You can top with a carnauba if you want though.



If you enjoy waxing though, carnaubas tend to be a more on and off product and do provide good protection for a few months.