Vintage car/paint

[ehgvette]

I have yet to work on an old paint job, but I have the opportunity to work an old early 60`s Caddy and a late fifties Buick. They have both been garaged for years, what a treat. Should the paint on these old cars be treated differently?

[jr weeks]

It`s likely acrylic lacquer , as acrylic enamel came on later in the 1960`s. Lacquer polishes up nicely, but can dull back down quick too since it has mostly solvents and has very little solids. Acrylic enamel would be on a late 60`s Caddy, but I don`t think early 60`s had that yet. Acrylic enamel is pretty thick, by today`s standards, around 10 -12 MILs where today our clearcoat is ~2 MILs.

You can surely use today`s products on either of that paint and get good results, it`s the opposite you have to worry about (i.e. using compounds from the 60`s on today`s clears).



You will find it pretty hard paint if it`s in good shape, and you *may* have to go up a step in abrasives (med cut compound instead of fine cut etc. because of the paint type) due to the fact today`s products are much more refined and less harsh then their 1960`s counterparts. You may only need fine grit polishes anyway. Most 3M products (and others) for today`s paints also state their effectiveness on lacquers, so go by that when choosing a product.



Man, I love seeing old cars like that with their original paint, gives me a warm fuzzy ( I know, i`m weird). Cheers. Dan H

[Accumulator]

Originally posted by Guitarman

Man, I love seeing old cars like that with their original paint, gives me a warm fuzzy ( I know, i`m weird).



You and me both. Doing those would be a real pleasure.



russellp23 - If you`re used to clearcoats, don`t :scared about some color transfer to your pads. As long as you`re using mild products, it should just be oxidized, "dead" paint that you WANT to remove.

[Mike_Phillips]

Hi russellp23





Just by chance, my absolute favorite thing to do is to restore old, antique and original paint, which I have indeed rubbed out many original finishes.



I would even go as far as saying I consider myself an expert at restoring vintage paint and recently helped two different gentlemen restore the original paint on a 1965 Harley Davidson, and a 1954 Corvette. Both found sitting in barns, both with paint that had been neglected for decades.



(Yeah I know, it`s hard to believe there are still Corvettes, let alone a 1954 Corvette, sitting/hidden in barns)



In the words of Dizzy Dean (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/quotes/quodean.shtml), (a famous sports announcer known for his folksy style)



"It ain`t braggin` if you can back it up."



That said,



I respectfully disagree with what Guitarman wrote about older paints being hard,




You will find it pretty hard paint if it`s in good shape, and you *may* have to go up a step in abrasives (med cut compound instead of fine cut etc. because of the paint type)



Actually, acrylic lacquers are very soft compared to modern catalyzed paints. How hard a single stage paint is, (or is not), depends upon the pigment type used to color the resin.



Because these finishes are old, they are what I would consider, fragile. Thus, if I were to restore them, I would follow Meguiar`s advise and use the least aggressive product necessary to get the job done.



That said, if you want, I would be happy to tell you "how I would do it using Meguiar`s", but only if the Mod`s give me permission because I don`t want this to appear to be a commercial for Meguiar`s.



I would point out that many of the products I`m going to tell you to use were specifically formulated for these types of paints and work exceedingly well.



Check out this thread about what older paints were made from,



http://www.showcargarage.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181



I could also just send you an e-mail. Most of this how-to is contained in my how-to book, (which isn`t ready yet) but you can sign up to be notified when it is here (http://www.theartofpolishingpaint.com)



Let me know,



Here`s an "After" picture of the Corvette, after following the procedures and using the products I outlined in an e-mail to the owner.



Note: This was all done using a Dual-Action Polisher, I feel confident, the gloss could even be higher with a careful machine cleaning, followed by a careful machine polishing using a rotary buffer.

[Scott P]

That is one good looking car. The only old vehicles in barns around here are made by International or Farmall. :(

[jr weeks]

I meant to say "brittle" about the lacquer, poor choice of words.



Checking and cracking is what they tend to do. Hard=brittle...I knew what I meant at the time, lol. :)

[Mike_Phillips]

Hi Guitarman,



Check! (no pun intended)



What I mean is you’re correct. Nitrocellulose and even Acrylic Lacquer paints are know to Lacquer Check.



This looks like the mud in a pond after the pond has dried up and the mud has cracked and separated.



All the more reason to be oh so gentle with older paints. They are brittle.



That`s why the first thing I do before I work on an older paint is to condition the paint by rubbing, (the word rubbing chosen carefully to denote more than wiping a product on, the finish down with an application of Meguiar`s #7 Show Car Glaze to more, or less, saturate the pores of these types of paint with oil, to make them more workable, rather than just diving into them with a compound or paint cleaner.



It`s an Extra Step, but if the original paint is important to the owner, then a step I feel is worth it.



p.s.



Dumb question… do you play guitar, or work on guitars?



I have sanded down and buffed out a few guitars. The owners stripped them and then held them while I ran the buffer. Just curious. :p

[jr weeks]

LOL, well here`s my background FWIW



I was a professional musician/ guitar instructor most of my early adult life, from 18 till about 33 when I decided to give up the travel. I worked in mostly rock/blues bands in the Philadelphia area, for a booking agency called Apollo Artists Attractions (found them on the web recently, still around- to my surprise) that kept me going 50 weeks out of the year, 4 to 6 nights a week for almost 10 years. I got pretty burnt out. I have classical guitar, and jazz training, and although I cut my teeth on rock/blues stuff with the clubwork, I lean towards contemporary jazz nowadays.



Since I have some background in auto painting, I have refinished a couple guitars, and there`s one I am about to do soon that I keep putting off ...it`s the guitar that I did my clubwork with, and it needs a resto. I was never one to worry too much about the cosmetics of my axe when I was working (too difficult when you use it they way I did), just the sound. Today I`d like it to look good again.



I will probably use the DuPont Chroma multi-use clear that I have for my car work, I see others are doing similar now. Neat.



I do use my buffer on my acoustic guitar at least once a year. Fun :)

[Mike_Phillips]

K0oL :p



While I`m certainly no musician, I did run the lights for a couple of bands for years in my home town.



Too much fun!



Mike

[Accumulator]

Originally posted by Mike Phillips

...That said, if you want, I would be happy to tell you "how I would do it using Meguiar`s", but only if the Mod`s give me permission because I don`t want this to appear to be a commercial for Meguiar`s.



I would point out that many of the products I`m going to tell you to use were specifically formulated for these types of paints and work exceedingly well....





I could also just send you an e-mail. Most of this how-to is contained in my how-to book, (which isn`t ready yet) but you can sign up to be notified when it is here (http://www.theartofpolishingpaint.com)







Mike- I just got on your notify list (I`m the entry for 1 Oct. `03 at 1926 hrs) and I`m on the edge of my seat. Given the nature of some of my toys (no, no, nothing interesting by most standards :D ), I am VERY interested in techniques for preserving original, s/s paint. What I`ve been doing has worked OK so far (18 years on the Jag), but if I can do better I`m all for it.



Please PM me if you decide/are instructed to NOT post the procedures/products you alluded to above. The work you did on that `vette is really outstanding :bow



Yeah, checking and cracking...like around the fuel filler of EVERY Series I-III Jaguar XJ6/12 I`ve ever seen...

[Mike_Phillips]

Originally posted by Accumulator

Mike- I just got on your notify list (I`m the entry for 1 Oct. `03 at 1926 hrs) and I`m on the edge of my seat.

K0oL


Please PM me if you decide/are instructed to NOT post the procedures/products you alluded to above. The work you did on that `vette is really outstanding :bow



I haven`t heard either way yet. I just don`t want to get into trouble with anyone.



But I`m in testing most of tomorrow, and leaving for St. Louis on Friday, so time is a running short :o

[imported_garyo]

Mike,



I too would like to hear what you have to say and the technique you recommend. My toy has a s/s paint and I don`t want to screw it up. I have been very conservative and have not done any type of polishing on it all for the 2 years I have owned it. That said I would like to get out some of the swirls and make it look better but I got really concerned with the "die back" concept. Just post. We are asking so it isn`t "unsolicited". :D

[Mike_Phillips]

I`ll post a write-up, but it will have to be after the St. Louis GTG, it`s 4:30pm here in Irvine right now, and I havn`t even began to pack for the trip. I thought I could have posted something today, but I was involved testing with R&D since 7:00am this morning.



Sorry for the delay.

[chris0626]

I`ve been remiss about reading on Autopia. This is a great thread. :up



Mike, you`re always on the up-and-up about your product connection. Yes, please do the write-up you proposed. I too have an old unrepainted car (the Ghia) and would be interested in your approach.

[imported_garyo]

Ok Mike we have been patient :D We (well at least I would) want to know what you have to say.