New Member Question-Layering Carnuba

[HUMNBMR]

I just found this forum and probably will get fired from my job if I spend much more time here today. This is a great site:D



I have been a finish fanatic for years and always learn something new, as I have from this site today. I have much experience with Zaino on my black 01 Corvette (Sold):( and have decided to use the Meguiars product on my new 03 Black Sapphire BMW 525i.



After taking delivery, I washed, clayed, washed, and applied a coat of Meguiars GC. The next day, I followed with Meguiars yellow carnuba.



Looks great, but the question is, does layering the Carnuba make any difference? I had nearly 20 layers of Zaino on my Vette and it was fantastiic, but the Zaino magnified any imperfection in the black paint.



All response are appreciated:D

[Deanski]

Yes you can with a good carnuba. You just should wait 24 hours after each coat so it has time to dry the oils used in it, otherwise you are just smearing it around.



For black you can`t beat Souveran Paste! Does a really nice job on reds and blacks. I just put two coats on my Lexus SC430 (RED-see in sig below) that has many layers of Zaino.



You know, you could go back to Zaino, then top with a good carnuba such as Souveran or P21S, Carnuba Moose etc. It`s an outstanding look!



Yep, Zaino does show everything as it`s optically pure. That`s why anyone who wants to use it has to get the finish as mirror looking and mark free or they just pop right out at you! However, a wax topper mutes the effect quite a bit.



Enjoy the layering! Just do not rub hard!



Regards,

Deanski

[Anthony O.]

The jury is still out on the subject of carnuaba layering. Many people insist that you can layer a paste carnauba but many others claim that another layer of wax will do nothing but waste wax.



I lay down only one layer for each car I do so for me it doesn`t matter.



Anthony

[bigpoppa]

Right now I have about 10 coats of Zaino and 2 coats of Souveran on my black vette. The second coat of Souveran didn`t make much of a difference, but I like to add the second coat. It adds just a little bit more to the finish.

[Jngrbrdman]

I don`t necessarily layer waxes. I just put a new layer on once a month and I know the wax lasts longer than that so I guess you could call it layering. Most liquid waxes have too high of a solvent content to layer properly. Any layering with carnaubas that happens is most likely going to be with a paste wax.

[rstype]

I tend to think that carnaubas do not layer. Here are my random thoughts (sorry if it bugs you that they replicate college proofs):



Given: Souveran = oils + solvents + silicones + waxes

Proof: None of the listed ingredients above form layers.



Oils

Visualize this: You poured oil on your paint and wiped it off. Would pouring on more and wiping it off again increase the amount of oils present? Not likely ¡V you¡Â¦re wiping it all off with your towel anyway. Paint is mostly nonporous ¡V it does not get hungry or need feeding oils.



Solvents

Duh...



Silicones

The ones in carnauba? Nope.



Waxes

Again, visualize this (I know this is tedious, redundant, ineffective, and slightly irrelevant, but I can`t think of any other way of describing it): Rub a candle back and forth against your paint and wipe it off. Doing that another ten times won¡Â¦t increase the build up of wax. You¡Â¦re wiping it off. It¡Â¦s not like the paint is bread and the wax is peanut butter.



More...

1.) Waiting 24 hours between applications of wax does not make a difference for the concept mentioned above; that just gives time for it to evaporate.

2.) IMO, synthetic terminology shouldn¡Â¦t be used for carnaubas. Waxes don¡Â¦t need to cure. Polymer sealant = resin, and in the correct circumstances, they build up, crosslink, and form layers. It¡Â¦s the peanut butter.



Thus, the ingredients in carnauba do not form layers.



(I think I just confused even more people :o I`ll shut up)



Oh, and HUMNBMR, congrats on your new 5-series!

[oldblu]

Holy cow, all I know is when I layer Souveran it just looks so much better.!!!!!!!!!! P.s. Picked up the new Pinnacle Cycle Glaze and I like it better then Souveran!!!!!!!!! Cheaper too.

[beastie]

I put 2 layers of Souveran and my eyes did not deceive me, it was better. It was the proverbial deep pool of liquid paint. My colleagues said that it was "like melting ice".

[HUMNBMR]

Thanks for the responses. I think I`ll try Souveran. Whether it layers or not, I get a charge out of the process of putting it on. You know,



1. Get ready to apply - Cool off beer

2. Wash car - Drink Beer

3. Apply coat to Hood and top- Drink Beer

4. Take off previous coat- admire work and drink another beer

5. Apply coat to side 1- Drink beer

6. Apply to side two- get snack and of course drink another beer

7. Remove all coats, apply quick detailer

8. Send wife to store for yes, more beer, since I can`t drive legally

9. Admire job and sit in car imagining being able to go for a spin if I had not drank sooo much beer

10. Rest/eat/sleep-- Plan woorkout routine for the next day to work off all the beer and consider a second coat



It`s the whole process that rocks:)

[ntoddalbert]

HumnBMR



I see your Location, do you work in Aviation?

[HUMNBMR]

FalconGuy,



Not currently. I am a Computer Guy. I used to work for AA as a Programmer.

[Anthony O.]

After just 1 beer with me I would have a hard time remembering which step I am on in my detailing process (lightweight). If I had as many beers as you describe in your process I would be detailing my car with the help of Elvis and the Teletubbies!!



Anthony

[andriver]

HaHa very funny.

[Jesstzn]

Why not put a coat of whichever carnuba you like on your hood and then open the hood and put a descrete removable mark on the underside of the hood roughly about the center. Then every day put a piece of masking tape mark to mark and add a layer of carnuba to the left side only .. remove the tape .. after a couple or 3 layers look really close to see if the left and right actually differ. Humans are funny creatures. If you tell your mind that your going to add another layer of wax to something and its going to look better .. it will. This way you will be able to tell if it does or not.