View Full Version : MF`s a gimmick? What someone is trying to tell me...
n2_space
07-18-2003, 11:03 AM
MF=microfiber. And it`s nothing but a gimmick. I`m not flaming here--I have a Bachelor`s degree in Textile Technology. The fibers in the yarn are smaller (hence the name.) The spaces between the fibers are smaller, so large dirt particles don`t get in there as much. This is why the manufacturers claim it`s better for your car. However, the particles are still on the surface of the cloth, so they abrade your paint even more than a nice clean 100% terry cloth towel, which allows the particles to migrate into the pile of the cloth, away from the car`s finish. In addition, when dirt and dust do get into the microfiber cloth, they usually stay near the surface, and they are harder to remove with conventional washing. The main reason why microfiber technology was developed and used in consumer fabrics was to improve hand (that`s the textile term for "how it feels") and drape characteristics.
??? Your thoughts? I said BS, I find MF`s to be better and less likely to swirl. :nixweiss
Nikon
07-18-2003, 11:09 AM
To me science and specifications are a helpful starting point. The results in real world application is what matters in the end. Someone can say my terry towels are technically better than my MFs all they want. I know from first hand experience that the MFs I use are better than the terry towels I use, in my application.
I think personal experience will tell you what you need to know.
n2_space
07-18-2003, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by Nikon
To me science and specifications are a helpful starting point. The results in real world application is what matters in the end. Someone can say my terry towels are technically better than my MFs all they want. I know from first hand experience that the MFs I use are better than the terry towels I use, in my application.
I think personal experience will tell you what you need to know.
I agree, I am just wanting some more support and facts or what have you to bring into the discussion ;)
Nikon
07-18-2003, 11:22 AM
Sorry, I don`t have anything to offer on the scientific or technical front. The extent of my scientific analysis of this is rather cave-man like;
Mmmmm, micro fiber towel . . . soffffttt,
Oooooo, Mmmmm, don`t leave scratch on paint
Eeeeeegh, remove product better
Aahhhhgh, Micro fiber goooood
(My spelling of cave-man sounds may not be correct since I seem to have misplaced my cave-man pronunciation dictionary)
endus
07-18-2003, 12:35 PM
My experience so far has been that this isn`t true, but more scientific evidence is obviously needed.
The other thing that`s wierd is that if MF was supposed to improve the feel of the cloth, they failed miserably. The Pakshak waffle weaves are the only ones I`ll touch without gloves on. I don`t even like to pick them up because they give me the heebie-jeebies. MF`s feel disgusting and I know I`m not the only one who feels this way...
topnotchtouch
07-18-2003, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by n2_space
??? Your thoughts? I said BS, I find MF`s to be better and less likely to swirl. :nixweiss
It is simple, he seems to be comparing apparel grade MF which has no nap to what we use. The terry nap in MF works exactly the same way it does on cotton terry towels. As someone else said, real word results contradict what this person said.
I also think this person has a stake in cotton as most MF is made overseas if I am not mistaken. Seems to me it is not good for the US textile industry. Anyway sounds like he is biased.
medic159
07-18-2003, 12:52 PM
He is only partially correct, you need to understand a few things. First of all comparing MF to Terry makes no sense at all because microfiber is a yarn size and terry is a weave. Thus you can have a MF terry or a MF waffle, or a MF denim for that matter.
Remember also that MF can be man made (i.e. polyester) or natural (i.e. cellulose.)
A densely woven MF cloth is not a good idea for car finishes, nor is a densly woven fabric such as denim, you need a fabric that is woven (or possibly knit) so that it`s characteristics work for you. Terrycloth is best for polishing, buffing, and dusting, while a waffle weave is best for drying. Combining microfiber yarns with thicker yarns gives you the best of both worlds. Also my personal opinion is that natural fibers work better than man mades.
Microfiber yarns are not a crock, it is just not understood by most people. They think MF is all that is important. I`ve seen MF that can cause very bad scratches and I`ve seen non MF soft as butter. You really do need to look at the complete "package" so to speak.
As far as the fabric retaining dirt particles at the surface, that has nothing to do with whether or not something is MF, it has to do with the weave of the fabric.
imported_rachelanne16
07-18-2003, 12:52 PM
I am just starting out and I was very dubious about MF. I am very much a `natural fabrics` kind of person. But after buffing Klasse AIO and BF-AFPP using 100% cotton with unsatisfactory results, then using MF with great results, I am a now a convert.
I don`t know how they compare in overall gentleness to the paint, but there are two area in which MF excels; removing product and drying. The construction of MF makes it a lot more grippy and absorbent than cotton terry.
In you search for `scientific` ammo, you might check out Microfiber - What`s the big deal? (http://www.properautocare.com/micwhatbigde.html) at the CMA site.
imported_phareous
07-18-2003, 01:29 PM
I agree microfiber feels weird...almost like it is trying to pry your skin off. But other than that...they are very nice :)
Scott P
07-18-2003, 01:44 PM
It`s not the MF that feels weird. It`s just that the fabric is grabbing all of the small dead skin you have on your fingers. Rub it on your cheek if yo want to see how soft it is.
medic159
07-18-2003, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by hallo gallo
...I am very much a `natural fabrics` kind of person... But after buffing Klasse AIO and BF-AFPP using 100% cotton with unsatisfactory results, then using MF with great results, I am a now a convert...
In you search for `scientific` ammo, you might check out Microfiber - What`s the big deal? (http://www.properautocare.com/micwhatbigde.html) at the CMA site.
Two points here: first of all you are comparing MF and Cotton which makes no sense at all since there is cotton MF available on the market. MF is the size of the yarn, NOT what it is made of!
The second point is that the CMA site is wrong, sorry guys but MF is not strictly a man made fiber of poly or nylon.
show car
07-18-2003, 03:37 PM
What this is telling me is..., someone has not used a quality MF towel before:)
Originally posted by Nikon
Sorry, I don`t have anything to offer on the scientific or technical front. The extent of my scientific analysis of this is rather cave-man like;
Mmmmm, micro fiber towel . . . soffffttt,
Oooooo, Mmmmm, don`t leave scratch on paint
Eeeeeegh, remove product better
Aahhhhgh, Micro fiber goooood
(My spelling of cave-man sounds may not be correct since I seem to have misplaced my cave-man pronunciation dictionary) :LOLOL :rofl :rofl
n2_space, I think that guy is confused or mislead. :rolleyes: Manufacturers don`t claim MF towels are better because of his large dirt/small dirt comment. It`s the fabric itself that is gentler when it`s perfectly clean. At least, that`s how I understand it. We all know polyester blended cotton towels can scratch, right? And yet polyester, when spun into microfiber, seems incapable of scratching. I believe it`s also these tiny MF fibers that make them so good for cleaning and buffing. Compared to cotton fibers on a microscopic scale, they`re like bundles of brush fibers instead of large, round, smooth "noodles". (Someone smack me if I`m wrong here. :p)
Also, I don`t really see how leaving dirt on the upper surface of the cloth would be harder to clean than having the dirt migrate down into the nap. :rolleyes:
imported_rachelanne16
07-18-2003, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by DFTowel
Two points here: first of all you are comparing MF and Cotton which makes no sense at all since there is cotton MF available on the market. MF is the size of the yarn, NOT what it is made of!
The second point is that the CMA site is wrong, sorry guys but MF is not strictly a man made fiber of poly or nylon.
Although it may not be technically correct to a person with a background in textiles, I think the acronym "MF" is generally accepted to mean polyester.
It is just easier to type "MF" than "0.02 denier split-fiber polyester-polyamide fabric," but your point is a good one and I (speaking only for myself) appreciate learning more about auto care materials. :D
No matter what has been negatively said about the MF... Using a plush MF works a lot lot better for me than a 100% Cotton Towel (may it be a virgin or not virgin cotton).