thread about proper application of #7

[Spilchy]

A few weeks back a great thread about how to apply #7 answered by Mike Philips was posted. I can`t find it anywhere. Can someone help me with the search?



Thanks.

[ntwrkguy1]

Spilchy,



Here it is, by way of 2hotford: I`m going to post my experiences with this product this weekend when I get a minute here at work!



-DavidM





This is a "How to" by Mike Phillips on the use of Meguiar`s #7. It has to be the best source of information on that glaze I have ever seen!! Well done Mike!!



Here is the post:





As someone else pointed out, #7 is a high oil content product. In fact, it`s mostly oil. I could tell you more about it, I have over 7 pages on just this product alone in my forthcoming book, How to Polish Paint. it`s really quite a unique product.



For the last 15 years I have seen a lot people comment as to how hard the product is to get off.



Usually, (and I`m not saying this is what your did), the person makes a couple of mistakes.



#7 is a non-drying oil.



One of the many things it can be used for is to make paint look wet, thus the name… Show Car Glaze.



The reason it can do this is because it is a non-drying oil. Think about it, when you get a brand new paint job, or if you spray some rattle can paint… before it dries… it looks wet, because it is. It hasn`t dried.



It`s hard to get the "Wet Look" with something they dries, especially if it turns white/opaque.



You cannot make something "more clear" with something that is "opaque".



#26 Yellow Wax, (which is a polymer/synthetic for the most part), dries clear, it does not turn white. It turns the surface very dark and deep however.



So the mistake most people make when using the #7 is this.



1. They apply it to thick - this makes it extremely hard to remove

2. They try to remove it like a wax.



Two tips.



First Tip - Apply #7 with a thin coat



Anybody`s product when applied thick is hard to remove, just read the Zaino threads. Same thing applies to most of the Meguiar`s waxes. A thick coat does nothing but waste product anyway, think about it. you wipe the excess off, i.e. the stuff sitting on top.



The idea is to "Push" the product into the pores of the paint, allow it to cure or dry, (if it`s a drying product) then wipe off the material remaining on the surface. Sure some product remains on the surface, and there are a lot of opinions concerning "Layering", but suffice to say, there is a point of "Diminishing Returns".



If it were true you could create a "film-build" of product, that would mean that after enough coats, you would no longer be applying a coat of product onto paint, but in fact would be applying a coat of product onto a "film-build of product", (In other words, your layers of wax/polish/protectant/polymer/sealant/synthetic, or whatever word/term you want to use to describe your protective coating.



Kind of like trying to re-create a "Clear Coat". Last time I checked, nobody`s product is clear, at least not like the clear resin a clear coat of paint is made from, (clear resin is often slightly amber in color)



So I don`t know if I subscribe to the "Layering" theory. I am experimenting however, with multiple coats after coat of product on my black demo panel here in my office, so far, no "visible film-build". I do believe that two thin coats are better than one, and three coats wont` hurt. After that, I don`t know. I would at least let some time go by.



So apply #7 thin. Use a soft foam applicator pad.



Second Tip - Removing #7 requires a special technique, not the same kind of technique you remove a wax with.



Most people remove their wax like this. Start in one area, begin wiping until all of the wax is removed in that area and then move on to virgin territory.



This will not work for #7. The "Act" of removing #7, tends to "Re-liquefy" the product, basically creating the smearing around effect that you experience when you apply it.



Instead, "Break" or "Disrupt" the "Continuous" layer of film-build and then move on to a virgin area and "Break this film-build up.



You see, #7 doesn`t actually dry, but… it will "Skin", somewhat like homemade pudding.



This "Skin" is easier to break up and remove then the more liquid film is.



By breaking up the continuos film-build and then moving on, you are exposing a fresh layer of the film to the air where it will skin. The next time you come around, it will be easier to break up and remove.



So the idea is to apply a thin coat to the entire car.



Then, Go around the car two to three times, removing a little bit at a time.



A big soft, high quality, 100% cotton, terry cloth towel works best for the first two passes, and then switch over to a Microfiber polishing cloth for the last pass. Microfiber polishing cloths have an affinity for both water and oil based liquids and will remove oily residues much better with less fiber inflicted scratches.



Anyway, that’s what my experience has taught me after applying and removing gallons of #7 over the years, to every kind of car with every known type of paint.



Another person mentioned it will wash off. This is true. #7 is a "Body Shop" safe polish. It has no "Lasting Characteristics", i.e. it contains no ingredients that will affect "Paint Adhesion", typically waxes or silicones. (There are what are called, "Paintable Polymers", Meguiar`s uses these in the "Speed Glaze", a body shop safe, cleaner/polish).



#7 is not meant to last. The idea is it will not semi-permanently "seal" or "Cap" the pores of the paint. (waxes, sealants, synthetics, polymers, whatever you prefer to call them act to semi-permanently seal or cap the pores of the paint. Nothing is permanent, at least not according to the theory of Entropy. This can lead into an entire discussion of "Permeable and Impermeable, but I digress).



This is important when used on solvent-borne paints because it allows the solvents to continue to work their way out of the paint resin through "capillary-action", (I think). The idea being that paint that is fully cured will be harder and last longer than paint that is not fully cured, i.e. softer and will not last as long.



How important this is to Catalyzed paints I do not know. The Synthetic wax crowd usually tells everyone it is safe to wax catalyzed paint shortly after they are sprayed. While this may be safe, I know that paint manufactures "Still" recommend waiting 30/60/90 days before you apply any type of "Sealant", i.e. wax to the surface. Best to follow manufactures recommendations when dealing with something as expensive a s new paint job, not to mention all of the work and inconvenience getting a car painted causes.



#7, in my opinion works better on single-stage finishes, either modern or traditional. For the wet-look, either Deep Crystal Polish, (very much like #7 but in Meguiar`s Consumer line), is easier to apply and remove or #80 Hand Polish in the Meguiar`s 80`s series, (Body shop products, only comes in a quart).



I`m sorry you had a hard time applying and removing the product, perhaps if you try again, following my tips you will have better results.



By the way, as someone else commented, usually, #7 is applied first, then wax is applied over it. This is because the #7 is water soluble and the wax isn`t`, thus the wax will act to "Lock" or "Seal" in the #7.



However… right before a show… to make the paint look wet and to fill in hairline scratches, it is perfectly aright to apply the #7 on top of the wax, thus the name… Show Car Glaze.



It was never formulated to be a lasting product, but instead a Beauty product.



Now I know the Zaino crowd, including Sal, don`t like using "oily" product on their paint for a host of reasons, I understand this fully and also agree they have a point.



With that said… if your goal is to make the paint it`s darkest, deepest and wettest looking, then I submit your best bet is a product that is oily and doesn`t dry. Yes, it might be temporary, but the show only last one to two days sometimes three.



The name is Show Car Glaze, not water beading, long lasting durable Miracle Wax.



You also might give the #26 a try for a dark, deep finish like you black corvette.



No it doesn`t bead water as long as Zaino and many other waxes, the #26, Gold Class and even the Medallion were never formulated to "Bead Water".



If you want to see a wax that will bead water… try the Meguiar`s Cleaner/Wax in the Maroon bottle, make sure it says "New and Improved on the label.



Our chemist reformulated it to "Bead Water Like Crazy" because of consumer demand. Only costs $5.00 a bottle and works great for most people.



I`m sure they could do this for are other products but the idea, I think, was to make a wax that didn`t bead water to avoid deep chemical etching that is caused when these tall beads dry on the finish.



Of course this doesn`t matter to hard-core enthusiasts that dry their cars after washing.



That`s all … hope this helps,



Mike Phillips





__________________

99, F250 Super Duty V10 4x4

[Spilchy]

FANTASTIC :bounce



Thanks for the help! :xyxthumbs

[ntwrkguy1]

You`re welcome! Very informative reading, too!

[m3pilot]

Very helpful information. When you top with a wax, will the #7 last as long as the wax is still there? Or does the #7 hurt the durability of the wax?

[godofthunder]

When he mentions about removing the product, what do you exactly do? Not try to polish it all off, and just do a quick swipe or something? Or just dont put a ton of effort like you are taking of a wax



jon

[fuggedit]

I`m having a hard time thinking of the exact words to describe it - but it`s more than a quick swipe. It`s sort of like "make an effort at removing it" - don`t stay in one place too long. Maybe when you start thinking "This stuff is never coming off" then move on.

[Mike_Phillips]

Originally posted by godofthunder

When he mentions about removing the product, what do you exactly do? Not try to polish it all off, and just do a quick swipe or something? Or just dont put a ton of effort like you are taking of a wax



jon



Exactly, just get "some" of it off, then move around the car getting "some" of it off. Not necessarily a "Quick Swipe", you want to put more "care" into it than that.



As your moving to another section, the area you just "disrupted" will "skin" making it easier to "remove" during your next pass.



The problem most people have removing an oily product like #7 is they try to take it "all" off in one section at one time.



This has tendency to "re-liquefy" it, thus making it smear as your trying to remove it which, if you think about it, is what you were doing with you applied, it, i.e. you smeared/polished it on.



Mike

[chris0626]

Originally posted by Spilchy

A few weeks back a great thread about how to apply #7 answered by Mike Philips was posted. I can`t find it anywhere. Can someone help me with the search?

The reason you`re not seeing it in Detailing anymore is that the mods (wisely!) moved it into the Hall of Fame forum! So it`ll be super-easy to find next time. :up

[ntwrkguy1]

Mike`s right on this as far as making a decent effort to remove the product on the first pass. What you`ll find is that by the time you`ve made it around the car, you`ll be able to `feel` the #7 on your microfiber towel (or whatever you`re using to remove it). The second pass cleans the remaining residue off, and the third pass is done just because you`re an Autopian!

[CHScholl]

This information was extremely helpful, however it causes me to question why I constantly saying that they find #7 easier to use that IHG which IMO is wonderfully easy. It also begs the question why Mr Meg`s doesn`t make #80 available in sizes suitable for the enthusiast

[Spilchy]

Does this method apply as well for Body Shop Professional Hand Polish?



Are they the "same" product? What`s the difference? Similar results? Is the Body Shop Professional Hand Polish easier to use? :nixweiss

[KCPreki11]

You can do the whole car with #7 without worrying that it will be hard to remove the polish at the end?

[ntwrkguy1]

KC,



Here`s what i posted earlier about removing #7. Yes, I did the whole car and then went around and removed #7 in three `steps`.





Mike`s right on this as far as making a decent effort to remove the product on the first pass. What you`ll find is that by the time you`ve made it around the car, you`ll be able to `feel` the #7 on your microfiber towel (or whatever you`re using to remove it). The second pass cleans the remaining residue off, and the third pass is done just because you`re an Autopian!



-DavidM