View Full Version : Lexus attempt of paint repair
Deanski
06-05-2003, 09:21 PM
Well here`s the latest from both Lexus Customer Service and their discussion from the dealer.
Refreshing the situation:
The car was stone chipped, the dealer, once notified of my dissatisfaction was willing to do the repairs.
Prior to dropping off the car on a Tueday, I highlighted ALL paint chips and paint defects with black china marker, which the dealer service rep also commented on the steps I took. I also requested that ALL swirl marks were to be removed, as they put them on at no charge when I took delivery. Also, NO WAX was to be applied due to the Armorglove film application requires no wax on the paint.
On Friday, I was informed the car was ready, I then sent Armorglove up to "glove" the car. Upon return to their office, they informed me the job was done and that they noticed that chips are still on the lower bumper. :eek:
Lexus customer service has contect me today, and this is their resolution along with the dealer....
The dealer is willing to repair the chipped area again, and wants to keep the car several days for any paint to cure (were talking a chip now).
I would be responsible to have the glove removed and re-applied at MY COST! ..... WTF??? :angry
I pointed out to Lexus Customer Service that I WAS informed by the DEALER that the car was READY to which, Armorglove was dispatched to put the film on.
Now, I assumed that ALL repairs were made, and had no reason to leave my office, drive all the way to the dealer to inspect the car. After all, it`s Lexus. :nixweiss
Again I stressed the point that if the dealer did the job correctly, we would not be having this conversation, however, the dealer accepted the car back in the condition in which all the repairs WERE NOT made, and was not informed of any issues.
So why should I expect to spend another additional $1100 to have it removed and new film installed because the dealer did not perform the required work? To this, there is no answer from Lexus Customer Service and has to call the dealer again. I insisted that Lexus Corporate has to step in at this point to insure customer satisfaction and to make whatever corrections at the cost to both the dealer and Lexus.
The Lexus Customer Service rep, then started on the fact that Armorglove is aftermarket product, which IS true, but as I pointed out again, Lexus had to know of these issues in the past, made no attempt to inform the customer, forcing the customer to seek alternate products just to protect the car so the customer may enjoy it.
I pointed out a situation at a different Lexus dealership service center I was in at the time with my other Lexus. A customer had a problem with the garage door opener button, it would only work once. They sent out a tech to the customers house and found the problem. The problem was that the door opener was too old to except rolling codes. The resolution: Dealer calls customer, informs of the problem and offers to replace the garage door opener at no cost to the customer stating that the car was under warranty regarding the button in the visor, and that the customer just inform them who he would like to install the new opener or they could handle it themselves. Now THATS customer service!
At this point, I informed him that his attempt to correct this situation has been poor, and I would start to seek alternate means if needed to accelerate the issue.
I`ve NEVER had issues with a Lexus dealer before, or Lexus in the past. Now they expect me to be responsible for the dealers mistakes and poor judgement by funding all this additional work....
I am expecting another call back, and I did inform him that serious repercussions will insue if this is not corrected. I trusted both the dealer and Lexus for a fair solution, and this is what I get. I am excalating this up further in Lexus for a more resonable responce and hopefully will find that Lexus does stand behind their products and services no matter who the dealer may be.
I hope all of you will learn from my experience with a Lexus dealer and Lexus Customer Service.
Now that I have my Menzerna, I`ll do the swirl removal myself (thanks Lexus) and do my Zaino/Souveran once these issues are resolved.
Regrettably,
Deanski
andriver
06-05-2003, 10:27 PM
Hey Deanski, sounds like a nightmare. Associates that have Lexus vehicles usually rave about their customer care. Good luck and wishing you a quick and equitable resolution...Andrew
imported_JetBlack
06-07-2003, 11:52 AM
I pointed out a situation at a different Lexus dealership service center I was in at the time with my other Lexus. A customer had a problem with the garage door opener button, it would only work once. They sent out a tech to the customers house and found the problem. The problem was that the door opener was too old to except rolling codes. The resolution: Dealer calls customer, informs of the problem and offers to replace the garage door opener at no cost to the customer stating that the car was under warranty regarding the button in the visor, and that the customer just inform them who he would like to install the new opener or they could handle it themselves. Now THATS customer service!
:shocked
Err, that is more than customer service. They did not have to replace the garage door opener. It is almost like a customer saying "the car you sold me does not fit in my garage, I want to you build me a new garage/house"
I do not know the history of your problem, but let me also tell you, you would not have gotten as much out of your delaer if it had not been Lexus dealer. But FWITW in this case you a good point and Lexus should foot the bill for the work. Keep at it, they will probably cave in.
Deanski
06-08-2003, 08:28 PM
Well, as I said in the previous post, I highlighted ALL defects with a black china marker when it was dropped off.
Once I was informed that the car was ready, Armorglove went to install the film.
What is disturbing is that Armorglove crew brought to the attention of the service manager that there were still chipped areas on the front bumper. They were told that that`s how the car was repaired (it wasn`t) so they proceded to put the film on.
The dealer did not notify me as to any defects remaining prior to Armorglove arrival. Therefore, the dealer is responsible for the repairs and condition of my car when it was in their shop. They were given strict instructions and both the service personnel and manager reviewed the car with the highlighted areas with the black china markers.
It`s not my fault that the dealer did not perform the work. I was not asked, nor told to inspect the vehicle prior to Armorglove install. After all, it`s Lexus. They have a higher standard of customer service and repairs. However, this dealer is failing that mark.
I`m still waiting to hear from Lexus customer service as how they will resolve this. Yes the dealer will have the areas repaired, but I`m not paying again to have the Armorglove removed/replaced because the dealer screwed-up!
I`m shocked that it`s gone this far, considering it`s Lexus. Normally, they go out of their way to assist the customer. They want their customers to return to the same dealer to purchase their next Lexus. That`s why the one dealer offered to replace a garage door opener. It`s cheaper for them to resolve it this way, and the customer is satisfied. That`s also the reason I went with Lexus, as I owned a Ford and the service was terrible.
Regards,
Deanski
JAGOWNER1981
06-08-2003, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by Deanski
Well, as I said in the previous post, I highlighted ALL defects with a black china marker when it was dropped off.
Once I was informed that the car was ready, Armorglove went to install the film.
What is disturbing is that Armorglove crew brought to the attention of the service manager that there were still chipped areas on the front bumper. They were told that that`s how the car was repaired (it wasn`t) so they proceded to put the film on.
The dealer did not notify me as to any defects remaining prior to Armorglove arrival. Therefore, the dealer is responsible for the repairs and condition of my car when it was in their shop. They were given strict instructions and both the service personnel and manager reviewed the car with the highlighted areas with the black china markers.
It`s not my fault that the dealer did not perform the work. I was not asked, nor told to inspect the vehicle prior to Armorglove install. After all, it`s Lexus. They have a higher standard of customer service and repairs. However, this dealer is failing that mark.
I`m still waiting to hear from Lexus customer service as how they will resolve this. Yes the dealer will have the areas repaired, but I`m not paying again to have the Armorglove removed/replaced because the dealer screwed-up!
I`m shocked that it`s gone this far, considering it`s Lexus. Normally, they go out of their way to assist the customer. They want their customers to return to the same dealer to purchase their next Lexus. That`s why the one dealer offered to replace a garage door opener. It`s cheaper for them to resolve it this way, and the customer is satisfied. That`s also the reason I went with Lexus, as I owned a Ford and the service was terrible.
Regards,
Deanski
I had a horrible experience with lexus service when i first got my IS300 also. After arguing with corporate and the service manager, they now go out of their way to help me. Now the service manager and I have a great "relationship" and I love it! I hope everything works out for you. Post pics after the car is done! I want to see this "armorglove".
Deanski
06-08-2003, 08:53 PM
ALBoston:
Not much to see as to the Armorglove! That`s the whole point!
I`ll see if I can get some close shots of it for you.
As for this dealer, I only went to them as I purchased the car from them as Westport wanted a minimum of $3000 profit on each SC430. Sorry, but I`m the kind of guy that shops around to get the best deal, and got mine 2% over invoice. Plus, as I pointed out to the dealers, they are down 43.7% in sales from last year to this year for this model.
I`ll see what Lexus CS will offer soon I hope. I hate looking at the repair they did on the hood, you can see it through the "glove" and you can feel it. Feels like a crater!
Regards,
Deanski
GoodnClean
06-09-2003, 11:19 AM
Lexus does have great customer service, but like any company they occasionally have their foibles. If you keep on them, I have no doubt that you can reach a solution that you both feel is fair.
Good luck, sorry this happened. I`ve learned never to trust it when someone says a car is "done". I always make sure that I swing by to pick it up when the dealer is still open for business so I can send it back if need be.
Deanski
06-12-2003, 04:29 AM
****** UPDATE AS OF 06/11/2003******
Ok, here`s the latest in the saga of paint chip repairs.
After calling Lexus Customer Service for an update to the issue at hand, this was the responce.
Lexus corporate WILL NOT assist in this issue of paint chip repair and the Armorglove removal/replacement. :eek:
It seems that it will all fall on the dealer and myself! :confused:
So, the dealer will repair the paint (AGAIN) and I Have to foot the Armorglove removal/replacement. NICE :doh
This is again, after all the discussion of myself highlighting ALL defective and chipped areas with china marker, the dealer ONLY admits to the ones on the hood! Jesus H Christ, are they THAT blind? :shocked
After contacting Armorglove, they again stand by their statement that they informed the service department of the lack of repairs to the front bumper and side mirror and the quality of the repairs to the hood. Now the dealer is pointing the finger at Armorglove.:nono
The dealer is commenting that the paint repair was not cured fully. OK, great, so why did they let Armorglove cover the areas? Remember, they had the car from a Tuesday through Friday.
Armorglove`s people are VERY reliable and I know they did notify service of the issues, but assumed that the areas in question were accepted by me and the chip repair areas were cured.
I`m at the point now that if I have to go through this again, it won`t be with this dealer!
I may ask Armorglove to do the work at another dealer in my area. This dealer has a high rate of customer satisfaction and stands behind all work they or their vendors do for their customers.
It goes to show that dealer choice is VERY important!
Lexus corporate will get further communication from me, and I will pursue other media to shed some light on this issue.
For those also affected by paint chipping, the more that call in to respond to the brittle nature of this paint and the vehicles desgin, the sooner a service bulletin will be sent out to the field for corrections and possible recommedation for new owners to obtain paint protection film.
I do not take lightly that a dealer is at fault, and now is blaming an outside vendor (Armorglove) for the repairs. Funny, Armorglove does not do touch-up paint work. Funny again that the dealer missed several areas that were clearly marked. Maybe the dealer need better lighting or a new perscription for glasses or contacts!
I have yet to speak to Lexus management as to their answer and will continue to press my explanation that I have taken extreme messures to point out the chips with china marker and they were still missed
It looks like customer service is not number one! Maybe I should send a picture of a local merchant in our area (Stew Leonards) that has a stone right at the enterance that says " 1: The customer is always right 2: If the customer is wrong, see rule number one".
I love this car, but I cannot see spending this kind of money and not getting service for simple chips! Yes I AM aware that road debris are not covered under warranty, but if a dealer offers to do the work and issues arise from not only the work, but a customer spending an additional amount just to protect the product hey manufacture, they should step in to resolve this issue in a more fair manner than just "they declined to assist" more like, sorry, your on your own even though you bought our product.
I think maybe next time I will switch to another manufacture that DOES stand behind their customers and their product!
Once again, THANKS LEXUS, YOU REALLY SHOW CUSTOMER SATISFACTION!:angry
Again, GET YOUR SC430 PAINT PROTECTED NOW OR FACE THE SAME PROBLEMS!
Regards,
Deanski
Deanski,
I`m not entirely sure why you are harping on Lexus soo strongly. Sure the SC430 is an expensive and awesome car but at the end of the day, Lexus are trying their best to keep you satisfied "within reason".
The facts above don`t necessarily stack up in your favour and you`re lucky the dealer is being soo understanding. I actually sympathize with Lexus on this one:
1. I would be responsible to have the glove removed and re-applied at MY COST! ..... WTF???
Armourglove shouldn`t have applied the treatment if there were paintchips without notifying you in advance. If you approve the application, then why should Lexus pay to have it removed? It was a bad judgement call either by Armouglove or yourself NOT LEXUS. They have nothing to do with this side of it. :nono
2. "Now, I assumed that ALL repairs were made, and had no reason to leave my office, drive all the way to the dealer to inspect the car. After all, it`s Lexus"
Never assume anything :rolleyes: The fact is, they simply could have missed one or two. So it goes. It`s your responsibility to ensure the corrective actions Lexus took met your standards.
3. Amourglove should never had applied the treatment the second time if the chips hadn`t been filled in!!! - Granted, I may have misinterpreted the actual sequence of events so the second application may have never taken place???
4. "The dealer is willing to repair the chipped area again, and wants to keep the car several days for any paint to cure (were talking a chip now). "
Very professional and reasonable on Lexus` behalf.
5. If the paint wasn`t fully cured, that is your issue not Lexus. REMEMBER: This is an aftermarket add-on, Lexus shouldn`t and has absolutely no responsiblity for it. It is YOUR responsibility and that of Armourglove to ensure the proper application.
:angry
------
Take a step back, look at the situation and you`ll realize Lexus have done their part. If you hadn`t applied the Armourglove in the first place, you`re dissatification would have been needing to drop off the car a second time to complete "free" repairs which Lexus has absolutely no obligation to cover. I bet you would have lived with that. Sure it sucks but hey, it`s free!
Stone chips are a fact of life that we all must live with. It`s not Lexus` fault, don`t drive the car then if you don`t want to live with the driving hazards that are out there.
If Acid Rain damages your car, are you going to go after Lexus for a full repaint!!!
A stone breaks your front glass or a fog light, are you expecting Lexus to cover that as well???
Let me know if you file a more formal complaint with Lexus and I`d be glad to write an opposing viewpoint letter and forward it to them in support of their position. It may be that Lexus need a better customer support manager to respond in a stronger way highlighting where you may have went wrong in your decision making tree and the fact of adding on aftermarket accessories complicates their ability to serve you.
Note: I do not own a Lexus. I just don`t like a car company getting slammed so strongly on a public forum for what is probably an owner issue after they`ve been professional enough to address the concern over and above what would is deemed normal warranty coverage. :up
This is no way meant to instigate a flame war but only to present an opposing viewpoint. :cool:
Deanski
06-12-2003, 08:53 PM
Let`s go over the facts.
I dropped off the car on a Tueday and on Friday, the dealer emailed me and said that the car looks great and send Armorglove up to do the car.
Armorglove arrives, inspects the car, and after notifying the service manager that the chips on the bumper and on the side mirror were not addressed, the dealership informs Armorglove crew that this is how the car was returned and to continue.
I was not notified by Lexus or Armorglove as to any issues. Remeber, I dropped it off with black china marks on ALL defects! All had circles and lines with arrows. The service personnel walk the car and took notice to ALL areas in question
The reason I did not go to the dealer is again it`s Lexus and they have a higher standard of service and responsibilities to their customers. You know, I should have just stopped by anyway just to make sure it`s ready for Armorglove, but I do not have time and this is why I trusted their (Lexus) judgement
Armorglove only applied the film ONCE THAT DAY. No second time. This will come after I find a dealer or shop to do the job right.
Lexus service again emailed me that the car WAS ready for Armorglove to be applied. This means that the paint cured, and it was ready, that`s all. Now they backpeddle and say that the paint chip was not cured? Not very professional. Lexus service had the car, not me. I am not an expert in paint application or how long it takes just for a chip to cure. I did not know what paint they used or how much etc. They had the vendor do the chip repair with FULL KNOWLEDGE that Armorglove was going to be applied. This is strickly Lexus responsibility. I did not know the vendor doing the repairs, do not know how long it will cure etc. THAT is Lexus responsibility to the customer, not the customers responsibility to know when paint is ready for film application. Armorglove was dispatched under the pretext that the paint was cured. Only Lexus and the vendor who did the work would have known.
As for "free" chip repair? I was under the impression that I would be paying for this, and I did not ask for any favor. They have to pay a vendor or contractor to do the job, so this was a given in my view that there will be a charge. I did not expect the dealer to do it for free.
The other side of the coin is that this may be a paint defect problem after all, but Lexus has not investigated. It only takes one to start, and maybe I have one with some type of defect or brittleness that they are not aware of.
The other bothersome issue is that this dealer also offers a paint protection film as well. I WAS NOT INFORMED AT DELIVERY OF THIS SERVICE! Had I known, you can bet I would have asked to see one, and if it was not to Armorglove standards, would have then request Armorglove. It just never crossed my mind at the time, but the dealer did offer Simoniz paint and leather care as well as tire warranty, which I accepted the tire warranty as these tires can be expensive.
On the Lexus forums, all people are quite alarmed of the lack of support from both Lexus and the dealer. Lexus is known for resolving issues with customers to keep them happy so they purchase another. My fault is that I chose a dealer with no customer service in mind. After all, it only takes them to say, "
You know, you`re right, the repairs were not done correctly, and we are sorry we missed those ones that were to be done. Would you give us another chance to correct this for you? We will get Armorglove back to remove the film and we will repair the ones not done, as well as correct the one that looks bad. Once we feel it`s ready, we will have them re-apply the film for you. Please let me know when you can stop by and view the car before we have them re-apply the film so we an make sure your satisfied "
That`s all it takes to "fix the customer" as we say in our business. If the customer has an issue with an SR (service request) we were scheduled to perform and a problem arrises, if we did not do our job correctly, we correct the needed issues and make sure the customer is satisfied. Yes we take a hit now and then, but this is why we have such high praise from our customers.
I do not expect something for nothing, but the dealer did say it WAS ready. Armorglove WAS told to do the film even after notifying the service staff (assumed service contacted me as it was Lexus responsibility to contact me) I DID NOT APPROVE THE APPLICATION WITH ANY KNOWLEDGE OF DEFECTS STILL VISABLE. and did a superb job as to the film. You cannot see it!
I have contacted Armorglove on this, and they are very sorry for the problem and will take whatever measure to correct any issues, even though they had nothing to do with the chip repairs. I`m working this out with them, and will be going to another dealer for review and assistance on this.
It`s just sad that Lexus CS will not correct a dealer mistake. Yes dealers are independent of Lexus Corp, but they still sell and offer service to what has been known as the best vehicle service in the industry. Yes it is an aftermarket product, but repairs were inferior prior to the film.
Bottom line is that the service manager knows how "fussy" I am with this car, and made comments that it`s in better condition than the one in the showroom, and they do not wash the car for that reason. He also knows the products I use to keep it this way as well, so he has an understanding of the products and detail industry.
Lexus has serviced me well in the past, that is why I chose to go to the best one they offer. I just went to another dealer due to costs that they offered at the time I got it. 2% above cost. Now I am returning to my former dealer and see what and how they would have resolved this.
It`s not your money that`s tied up in a vehicle that has defects in less than 15 days. Other cars where I live which are daily drivers show no chip damage. My company car with 112K miles driven all over the state show no major damage, just slight sand hits, much smaller in size.
I understand you fell that I`m just trying to get something from Lexus for nothing. What I am really trying to do is show them to take "ownership" of the problem and let`s come to some agreement that both of us can live with. It`s the finger pointing, and backpeddle I hate. If you make a mistake, it`s OK, let`s just find a way to resolve this instead of just outright denial.
I hope this clears up some of the isssue that I was having.
I still love this car by the way!
Regards,
Deanski
Deanski
06-13-2003, 09:41 PM
Oh yea, should I now start to worry because I had the same dealer drop the oil and filter at the first 30 days of ownership and switch to Mobil 1? What next, no warranty due to "aftermart" oil?
Sould I have gone to the dealer and checked the oil drain to make sure it was installed correctly? What about the filter? Did they put enough oil in?
Give me a break!
If a dealer screws up, they should take ownership of the problem, inform the customer and make whatever resolution needed to resolve the problem and "Fix the Customer" to keep him/her returning.
Oh well enough of my rant... I just will not do business with them, simple as that!
Back to more productive things... Once weather clears!
Regards,
Deanski