Mf cloths repeling water?

[Kenney]

A couple of my MF cloths are starting to repel water. Takes alot of work for them to get wet completely. What can I do to get rid of this? It has always repeled a little bit but never this bad.





thanks

[shaf]

I`m having some MF issues like this as well. They used to be much more absorbent when they were new. I`m trying to correct this situation, and so far these candidates sound like possible culprits:



1) Wax, polish, or other residues are starting to "waterproof" the MF fibers because they`re not getting washed out. Maybe try pre-soaking in something stronger first, rinsing, then washing them in HOT water.



2) Incomplete rinsing. Rinse them out twice after the wash cycle. Someone has commented that they noticed this was important.



Hope this helps and good luck, I`m still working on this and don`t have results yet. :nixweiss

[Lowejackson]

The build up of wax etc, sounds like a good theory. Presoak a towel in hand hot soapy water for a few hours before normal washing and see what the results are like.



I hand wash each towel in an attempt to remove most of the product build up. Then I soak all the towels before putting them in the washing machine.



Steven

[Kenney]

what should i pre wash them in? Dawn?

[Lowejackson]

Dawn or similar I also add some oxiclean



Steven

[shaf]

Sure, that might be okay. I`m trying Simple Green, but basically I`m thinking along the lines of something that will cut grease yet isn`t going to destroy fabric... Be sure to rinse it out thoroughly if you`re machine washing though, because I didn`t and Simple Green caused me to sit there bailing out suds from my washer for a while! :p Kinda comical now that I think about it, but annoying at the time.



BTW, I didn`t come up with the 2 possibilities above. They`re just from some more recent threads/posts about washing MFs....

[rstype]

My PakShak MF`s repelled water when they were brand new...

[chris0626]

Originally posted by Lowejackson

Dawn or similar I also add some oxiclean

If you`re using Oxiclean, be VERY sure the granules are completely dissolved before putting the MFs in the water. Otherwise, the granules may get trapped in the fibers and cause scratches.



Also, I assume we all know not to use fabric softener, right? It`s a surefire way to create non-absorbency.



I`m much happier with my MFs absorbency since I half-dry in the dryer, then hang for the remainder of the drying.



Just my $.02.

[medic159]

If it`s possible (and allowed by the manufacturer of the towels) wash them in hot water, that is best for removing wax buildup and thoroughly cleaning the fabric.

[Nick T.]

Since I don’t use my 16�x16� towels for drying I’d never thought about absorbing/repelling water as a test for cleanliness. My normal method is to machine wash with laundry detergent and machine dry on delicate. The towels always seem clean to the touch.



This thread made me wonder, so I had to go down to the garage and spread out a few towels and mist them with a water bottle. Sure enough, there were a few of the older ones that wouldn’t absorb the water unless they were lightly rubbed.



Hmmm - time to experiment. I picked four towels that repelled the most water, half a dozen small squares that had been used for carnauba or polish/cleaner application (all of them freshly washed) and headed for the laundry area. but made a side trip to the kitchen for a bottle of liquid dishwasher detergent (dishwasher, not dish washing). Put in the normal amount of laundry detergent (liquid Tide) and an equal amount of liquid Cascade. Since the Cascade doesn’t mix easily with the water, I stirred it a little by hand before adding the MF. Went through a normal wash/rinse cycle and a second rinse cycle. Into the dry and out for testing.



The towels absorbed water as a couple of new and unused towels (including one from PakShak), and the squares that had been used as applicators were almost as absorbent. In the future the dishwasher detergent method is going to be my method of choice!



BTW, the Cascade bottle has several warnings:

DO NOT SPILL ON FABRIC - CONTAINS CHLORINE BLEACH



DON’T LET YOUNG CHILDREN USE BOTTLE OR TOUCH PRODUCT IN DISHWASHER. SCREW ON PROTECTIVE CAP AFTER USE.



Ingredients include chlorine bleach and silicate salts. Not for hand dishwashing. Don’t mix with hand dishwashing liquids, other cleaning products or ammonia as irritating fumes may result. Don’t reuse bottle



Sounds pretty scary, but I couldn’t detect any ill effects on the towels. After the testing I used a couple of them while playing with some different polishes and QDs - and they appear to be normal. The next time I’m in the grocery store I’ll shop for a dishwasher detergent that isn’t scented.

[shaf]

Interesting, thanks Nick. I don`t use my regular MFs for drying either, but noticed the reduced absorbency during QD sessions.



That Cascade sounds interesting, but it does sound kinda scary.... Does anyone know what chlorine bleach does to MF (ie, nylon and polyester)?

[Nick T.]

Originally posted by 4DSC

Does anyone know what chlorine bleach does to MF (ie, nylon and polyester)? Your question sent me to the garage (and kitchen) again! I cut a 5�x5� square of white (slight blue/green cast from being washed with other towels) MF in half and put one piece in a glass filled with Clorox Bleach - agitated it every minute or two with a bamboo chopstick. After ten minutes I rinsed the test piece, washed it with dish detergent, rinsed again, and dried it using a hair dryer.



I couldn’t see or feel any difference between the two halves except the test piece was a lot whiter - the blue/green cast is gone! Did a few comparisons with both pieces; rubbed dry with medium pressure on my hood, spritzed on a little QD and wiped off, applied a little S100 paste (with a different MF), let it haze and wiped it off. No observable difference in performance between the two pieces.



The test towel came originally from NeatItems, and towels from other sources may not respond in the same way. And, as always, YMMV!



Brian, the more questions you ask, the more I learn! Thanks! BTW, is it really so cold in Vancouver that you need that butt-warmer?

[shaf]

Originally posted by Nick T.

BTW, is it really so cold in Vancouver that you need that butt-warmer? A man`s gotta do what a man`s.... well, maybe... :p :hm



Thanks for doing all these tests Nick and cutting up your MFs to experiment! :eek: :bow If someone suggested that I start cutting them up, I`d just laugh at them and think they were loony.



I wonder why most MF washing instructions warn against bleach then? Maybe it`s just one of those "just in case" warnings. One of my 3M cloths doesn`t warn against this, but does mention not using fabric softener. This is just a wild guess, but if your Neatitems swatch wasn`t hurt I`d bet that other brands wouldn`t be either. I mean, they`re all (except DF Towels) made of the same stuff.... :nixweiss

[Nick T.]

Originally posted by 4DSC

Thanks for doing all these tests Nick and cutting up your MFs to experiment!



I wonder why most MF washing instructions warn against bleach then? Maybe it`s just one of those "just in case" warnings. One of my 3M cloths doesn`t warn against this, but does mention not using fabric softener. This is just a wild guess, but if your Neatitems swatch wasn`t hurt I`d bet that other brands wouldn`t be either. I mean, they`re all (except DF Towels) made of the same stuff.... :nixweiss I didn’t cut up a towel to do the testing. My hand just doesn’t like applicator pads, so I’ve cut a couple of towels into 8� squares and another into 5� squares - works better for me. I just cut one of the 5� squares in half for the bleach testing.



As for the bleach thing; maybe not all bleaches are created equally??? The Cascade container says that it contains “chlorine bleach� and the Clorox container says that its active ingredient is “sodium hypochlorite.� That doesn’t tell me very much, and since the Cascade seems to work well and I’m lazy, I’m not going to do any internet research into bleaches.



I’ve heard (or read) that fabric softeners leave deposits on the fabric, and in the case of microfiber these deposits tend to kill the cleaning ability.



I have a blue glass cleaning towel from Microfiber Tech (http://www.microfibertech.com/strechTowel.html) that appears to be the same as the DF Towels, but a lower pile - an excellent towel.

[Nick T.]

Right after doing the above post I emailed MicrofiberTech, PakShak, DFTowels, CMA, and 4Star. I told them about my Clorox experiment and asked about the no bleach warning.



Terry of CMA, Ranney of PakShak, and Dwayne of 4Star all responded with basically the same answer: possible long term degradation. Dwayne said that he would pass the question on to his suppliers, and Ranney gave a detailed response which is quoted below.


Hi Nick,



As you know, there are different blends of micro fiber towels out there in the marketplace. And most of them are a blend of manufactured fibers that consists of different blends of polyester and polyamide (by product of Nylon). Except DF Towels which consist of natural fibers. Most manufactured micro fiber towels are either 80/20 or 70/30 blended micro fiber towels.



With proper care (washing and drying) most fabrics will last a good period of time. However, with micro fiber towels, it is best to avoid strong oxidizing agents such as bleach because they are susceptible to chemical degradation. Most bleach (sodium hypochlorite) solutions off the shelf, like Colrox, are a 5.25 percent solution. Which make it very strong for a chemical. If bleach is used on micro fiber towels, like as with any fabric including whites, over a period of time, the bleach will break down the fibers in the towel. It might not be apparent at first but with continuing washes with bleach, you will start to notice the difference. Yes, it is a great soil and stain remover and a good disinfectant. On the other hand, because of it`s powerful oxidizing properties, these bleaches are not safe for all fabrics including polyester/polyamide blended micro fiber towels. Also the fabric dyes are released. As you yourself have seen, the bleached micro fiber towels loose their color dyes.



I would recommend soaking your micro fiber towels in hot water with a liquid laundry detergent for 30-45 minutes. And then dry them at air fluff or low setting.



I hope I answered your questions. If you have any questions, please feel free to call or email me.



Thank you & Aloha,

Ranney Pak



MICROPAK LLC

Email: ranney@pakshak.com

Ph: 808-783-6006Since Cascade probably doesn`t contain very much bleach, it`s my opinion that it can be used without any danger of damaging the towels. YMMV!