Rave'nGTi
05-16-2003, 11:39 AM
heres the link
rant (http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/1190036.phtml)
but I`ll copy and paste it here as well
Why don`t you do yourself a favor and talk to a body shop about silica and/or polymer based "wax" before you put it on your car.
Wax is not just to make the paint shine, it is to feed the paint with the necessary amount of moisture and prevent contamination of the paint through penetration of the pores.
Most body shops will tell you to stay the hell away from polymer and silica based polishes are "wax". It can make repaint hard to apply, and while it makes the car shine, does not feed the paint with the necessary components or protect it adequetly.
You can make a car shine like a ***** with Kerosene, but it doesn`t protect the paint!
and
I had a huge arguement with Sal Zaino, in which he stated his products caused no issues w/repainting
period. He wrote me an e-mail stating this, after I posted my info from a glasurit rep a few years ago. Sounds like he changed his tune! Gee, I wonder why? Maybe he did some research. Talked to a body shop. Or had complaints. I don`t know, but I do know he has changed his story based on what you say.
Zaino is polymer based, period. So my statment has a lot to do with Zaino.
You want to believe a biased employee, dsitributor or owner of a business over the paint companies on which the product is applied?
If audi told you not to use 20W-50 and Valvoline told you it was ok, who would you believe? Audi who wants to make sure their product and good name lasts and has nothing to gain or Valvoline who is trying to sell you a product and doesn`t know your car like the manufacturer?
Come on. Why don`t you just call a few top level body shops or PPG, Sikkens or Gasurit`s USA distributors.
As for paint prep, sure, Zaino and similair products can be removed. But it`s not easy to get polymers that cling "as advertised" out of seams and edges, and off in entirety. When you take the time to call a body shop and not just believe the manufacturer of the product at hand, ask them about Armor-All or any other silicone based product (Zaino!) and how they hate and fight with it daily. The running joke at body shops is they have to keep woemn with fake breasts out. That`s how much they despise silicone based products.
Please, please find one body shop that recommends Zaino over carnuba. Try to find a single paint company that recommends it. If you can find one, you should buy a lottery ticket, as you are the luckiest man on Earth.
Does the fact that you have never heard of problems with Zaino and similair products mean that there is no problem? Do you think Zaino`d tell you? That is a pretty weak arguement. You are essentially saying "I`ve never heard of any problems so I won`t believe you." Are you the end all of end all`s? I am not, that`s why I quoted and refered to statements from INDEPENDENT people and groups, not from the manufacturer of the product.
And your statement that collectors use Zaino and it has a large following means nothing. People use all different products. Does the HP developing "Tornado" intake fan ring a bell? Or the Rocky Mountain Radar Jammer? How about the fuel line magnet that improves milage. Do you put Duralube in your S4? Tons of people swear by that too, but most oil and car manufacturers will tell you to keep it the hell out of your motor. Do you have an S-Flo? People swear by that too, but tests say it does nothing?
You asked for evidence that Zaino is not as good a product as carnuba. All I can do is tell you my conversations and experience. I believe the people I talk to and understand the problems (have painted more than my share of race and kit cars and had enough silicone fish eyes in my paint at times, POST SERIOUS PREP WORK with top level pre-paint prep solutions, to know my for myself).
What do you want, a letter from a paint company? If you want that, get it yourself. I know the answer and what is right, and I have told you how to get the appropriate and UNBIASED answer time and again through multiple posts.
I could care less what you buy and use. Zaino, New Finish, Turtle Wax, Kerosene, ect. It`s your car. But people with far more paint knowledge than you and I combined wouldn`t touch it with a 10 ft pole and paint companies don`t recommend it. Why do you fight this? Why do you care so much? Did you just drop some serious coin on some Zaino products? Sounds like bitter lemons to me.
I only posted this as I was warned by my friends and associates, people I trust and know are far more knowledgable than I am, and I figured I`d pass along my info to the people who might want to avoid what I and many others believe is not the best thing to put on your paint. Take it or leave it, it means nothing to me.
Mike S
Now I can understand about the repainting part... and why paint companies would not recomend it because of just that problem.... But do synthetics (polymer based, acrylic based, silica based etc) really `not feed the paint` or keep it moisturized?
I live in the new mexico desert and have no garage... my car is catching rays from the time the sun comes up till it goes down in the evening. I`ve used nothing but zaino on it since I bought it new Dec 01.
So is there any truth to this? Or have the newer synthetics overcome this? Do you really need to `feed` paint and moistureize it even?
I was thinking of swapping to a new cleaning regime since I`m getting a new (and expensive) car... and was eyeballing the Liquid Souveran kit on CMA. I don`t need the absolute best shine out there... but I do want the paint properlly taken care of and to last.... I generally wax at the beginning of each season (3 to 4 times a year)
rant (http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/1190036.phtml)
but I`ll copy and paste it here as well
Why don`t you do yourself a favor and talk to a body shop about silica and/or polymer based "wax" before you put it on your car.
Wax is not just to make the paint shine, it is to feed the paint with the necessary amount of moisture and prevent contamination of the paint through penetration of the pores.
Most body shops will tell you to stay the hell away from polymer and silica based polishes are "wax". It can make repaint hard to apply, and while it makes the car shine, does not feed the paint with the necessary components or protect it adequetly.
You can make a car shine like a ***** with Kerosene, but it doesn`t protect the paint!
and
I had a huge arguement with Sal Zaino, in which he stated his products caused no issues w/repainting
period. He wrote me an e-mail stating this, after I posted my info from a glasurit rep a few years ago. Sounds like he changed his tune! Gee, I wonder why? Maybe he did some research. Talked to a body shop. Or had complaints. I don`t know, but I do know he has changed his story based on what you say.
Zaino is polymer based, period. So my statment has a lot to do with Zaino.
You want to believe a biased employee, dsitributor or owner of a business over the paint companies on which the product is applied?
If audi told you not to use 20W-50 and Valvoline told you it was ok, who would you believe? Audi who wants to make sure their product and good name lasts and has nothing to gain or Valvoline who is trying to sell you a product and doesn`t know your car like the manufacturer?
Come on. Why don`t you just call a few top level body shops or PPG, Sikkens or Gasurit`s USA distributors.
As for paint prep, sure, Zaino and similair products can be removed. But it`s not easy to get polymers that cling "as advertised" out of seams and edges, and off in entirety. When you take the time to call a body shop and not just believe the manufacturer of the product at hand, ask them about Armor-All or any other silicone based product (Zaino!) and how they hate and fight with it daily. The running joke at body shops is they have to keep woemn with fake breasts out. That`s how much they despise silicone based products.
Please, please find one body shop that recommends Zaino over carnuba. Try to find a single paint company that recommends it. If you can find one, you should buy a lottery ticket, as you are the luckiest man on Earth.
Does the fact that you have never heard of problems with Zaino and similair products mean that there is no problem? Do you think Zaino`d tell you? That is a pretty weak arguement. You are essentially saying "I`ve never heard of any problems so I won`t believe you." Are you the end all of end all`s? I am not, that`s why I quoted and refered to statements from INDEPENDENT people and groups, not from the manufacturer of the product.
And your statement that collectors use Zaino and it has a large following means nothing. People use all different products. Does the HP developing "Tornado" intake fan ring a bell? Or the Rocky Mountain Radar Jammer? How about the fuel line magnet that improves milage. Do you put Duralube in your S4? Tons of people swear by that too, but most oil and car manufacturers will tell you to keep it the hell out of your motor. Do you have an S-Flo? People swear by that too, but tests say it does nothing?
You asked for evidence that Zaino is not as good a product as carnuba. All I can do is tell you my conversations and experience. I believe the people I talk to and understand the problems (have painted more than my share of race and kit cars and had enough silicone fish eyes in my paint at times, POST SERIOUS PREP WORK with top level pre-paint prep solutions, to know my for myself).
What do you want, a letter from a paint company? If you want that, get it yourself. I know the answer and what is right, and I have told you how to get the appropriate and UNBIASED answer time and again through multiple posts.
I could care less what you buy and use. Zaino, New Finish, Turtle Wax, Kerosene, ect. It`s your car. But people with far more paint knowledge than you and I combined wouldn`t touch it with a 10 ft pole and paint companies don`t recommend it. Why do you fight this? Why do you care so much? Did you just drop some serious coin on some Zaino products? Sounds like bitter lemons to me.
I only posted this as I was warned by my friends and associates, people I trust and know are far more knowledgable than I am, and I figured I`d pass along my info to the people who might want to avoid what I and many others believe is not the best thing to put on your paint. Take it or leave it, it means nothing to me.
Mike S
Now I can understand about the repainting part... and why paint companies would not recomend it because of just that problem.... But do synthetics (polymer based, acrylic based, silica based etc) really `not feed the paint` or keep it moisturized?
I live in the new mexico desert and have no garage... my car is catching rays from the time the sun comes up till it goes down in the evening. I`ve used nothing but zaino on it since I bought it new Dec 01.
So is there any truth to this? Or have the newer synthetics overcome this? Do you really need to `feed` paint and moistureize it even?
I was thinking of swapping to a new cleaning regime since I`m getting a new (and expensive) car... and was eyeballing the Liquid Souveran kit on CMA. I don`t need the absolute best shine out there... but I do want the paint properlly taken care of and to last.... I generally wax at the beginning of each season (3 to 4 times a year)