3M PIFC and DACP, pretty useless..... HELP!

[OUCH]

I just bought 3M Perfect-It II Fine Cut Rubbing Compound and Meguair`s Double Action



I`m currently using it on my spoiler which was previously cleaned with Menzerna IP and FP, 2x AIO, 3x SG... Also tried it with a body kit that I no longer use.. And I really can`t say I`m very happy with it but then I could be using it all wrong..



Here`s what I`ve done so far, on the body kit I applied it on my CMA yellow pad, put the dial on my PC 7424 @ 4, spread the DACP using my buffer and then powered it on... With medium to heavy pressure I ran the buffer from one end of the kit to another, waited till it`s almost dry and then buffed it off. To my surprise it only removed some fine scratches but not the deeper hairline one... Unhappy I decided to give it another run this time moving the buffer slower, and now using 5 at the dial, now I could tell that the scratches were slightly rounded compared to the ones I haven`t touched, so I thought maybe it`s just can`t remove those hairline scratches..



Next up is my spoiler, first I tested DACP on one end of it to see if it can remove these scratches I got, most of them are hairline ones, some are fine ones that was too deep for Menzerna and a few deep ones that can NOT be felt with your fingernails...



Again I used the same settings as above and it only removed some of the finer scratches. So I said screw this and decided to use the FCRC, I set it at 5 like I read here somewhere, used Heavy pressure and worked on half of the spoiler, to my surprise the surface DID NOT haze, it removed some of the fine scratches but not the hairline ones, which by the way can`t be felt by fingernail. Took it outside to look at it under direct sunlight and I might say it looks better than what Menzerna did and it was still surprisingly glossy and shiny like it still has 3 coat of SG :D



So I decided to do another run on it this time using a slower setting of 3, used heavy pressure running the buffer slowly across the spoiler till FCRC was almost dry. Better results got rid of all fine scratches but not hairline ones but it did make them less noticeable...



So Autopians what`s up here? Am I doing it all wrong or are hairline scratches just impossible to remove. Do I need something stronger, more abbrasive? Do I need to use a more cutting power, like wool? Please help, thanks



And sorry for the long post

[imported_COEX-PILOT]

No you are doing nothing wrong!



I`ve been reading hundreds of posts here over the last few months regarding the same thing, removing paint defects (all types from light scratches, swirls, hairline, spider web...what have you) and I finally came to this conclusion. This is based upon dealing with all the above on my black Corvette.



The ONLY way to remove (not fill in) scratches is to remove paint (clearcoat in most cases)! We are not talking a lot of paint but some very small amount needs to come off. Most of the stuff we use is just not capable of doing that or if does, it`s just not enough.



I have a PC and tried everyting. Sure some products do better than others but the only way I`m going to get out all the scratches etc. is with a circular (rotary) buffer and some compound. Wet sanding will also do the trick. Any other method with prove to be only a tempoary fix. See the dozens of theads here asking why after using such-and-such are my swirls back!



The problem is that after you finally get the finish perfect, just about anything will mess it up again and the whole process needs repeating. Sooner or later, there is going to not be any clearcoat left to remove (a bad situtation).



So, what I`m doing is getting it the best I can using various products and my PC. I work at it twice a week and the car look real good. But is it perfect? Nope.



I did get a chance the other day to see about 100 perfectly painted Corvettes. That was during my tour of the assembly plant in Bowling Green. The other 50 on the line already has minor paint issues. They used a rotary buffer to fix the minor problems the paint gets during assembly. What does that tell you?



So much for the perfect paint job.

[OUCH]

Whew thank God you replied, I really appreciate it at first I thought I was just an incompetent newbie wanna be detailer. I`m a newbie but not incompetent :D I was afraid with all the FCRC runs I`ve been doing that I will take the clearcoat off.. I`m not done with the spoiler yet so I`ll post again later. Again Thank you for replying

[shaf]

Originally posted by OUCH

....With medium to heavy pressure I ran the buffer from one end of the kit to another, waited till it`s almost dry and then buffed it off. Do you mean you worked it until almost dry, or did you run it for a short while and then just stop and wait for it to air dry? :confused:



I haven`t tried taking care of scratches yet, but my understanding of the PC is that it works for swirls, but not always for things you could call "scratches". You might want to try a wool pad though and see if that helps.



As for the Corvette assembly line using rotary buffers, they just use them for the same reason that Pro detailers like rotaries - they get results fast. I don`t think high volume production line style operations would ever use something like a PC even for minor defects because it still takes too long and for them time is money.

[Tim Lingor]

Hey!



I really love DACP and do not have the problems that you are having. I can only speculate as to what is happening. It is unclear in your missive whether you work the product until dry or you made a quick pass and let the product dry.



Secondly, I assume that you are working it (DACP) down until only a fine dust remains. At this point you need to stop as this will put more scratches back into the paint if you continue buffing. As this product has diminishing abrasives, if they are not worked down far enough, that too will leave marring on the surface. It is a fine line between too much and not enough buffing.



Finally, are you following up with #82 Swirl Free Polish? You will need to use this polish as a final polishing step to eliminate any hazing or very light marring from the cleaning, with DACP, process. I have not been able to miss this step no matter if I use a rotary or a PC.



Are you using a MF towel? Is your pad perfectly clean? Are you doing this outside where dust may be blowing onto the surface contaminating the pad, towels etc... .



There are many variables that only time and experience will cure.



You seem very dedicated so I am confident that you will figure the problem out in no time. There are a lot of really good people on this forum. Do not hesitate to ask them questions.



Cheers!



Tim

[OUCH]

I worked on it till it`s dry.. Sorry for the confusion

[stuart hicks]

Got to agree with the guy who said the rotary is the only way besides sanding to remove scratches.



A PC is a fun little weekend warrior tool, but if you use it do do a rotary buffers job it doesn`t work too well.



Unfortunately you probably are going to shave off a little paint or just live with a temporary fill in job.

[Robert O]

Dammit, now I think I`m gonna waste my tiem getting a PC!



Make up your minds!

[stuart hicks]

Hey don`t get me wrong I like the pc a lot. It makes waxing and light polishing an enjoyable process. I was actually amazed that the thing had as much speed as it does.



It just doesn`t remove heavy duty scratches like a rotory nor does it fully or nearly in my opinion break down products like finesse, #7, or any other heavy polish or cutting cream.



But it is the best tool ever for just waxing, glazing and light polishing. I would really miss it if it were gone.

[Robert O]

Well, I wanted to get some DACP and go to town on my black car then hand Zaino it. Now it sounds like a waste of time.

[shaf]

Originally posted by Konowl

Well, I wanted to get some DACP and go to town on my black car then hand Zaino it. Now it sounds like a waste of time. Well, put it this way: What`s your alternative? Spend hours learning how to use a rotary and use that instead?



And do you have huge ugly scratches or just swirls?



Just because this one thread makes the PC sound ineffective in this case, do you think it instantly nullifies all the hundreds of existing posts about people removing swirls and being happy with their PC?



Don`t make rash, spur of the moment decisions based on this, the best thing to do is to read all you can about something and then make up your mind.

[Robert O]

True. No, no major scratches at all - mainly swirls/minor scratches. I just don`t want to shell out 3 bills for nothing... :)



On a side note, can you buffer out Zaino with the PC? I doubt it`s a good idea (adding mire swirls) just asking.

[OUCH]

Okay I got some good news, after what must`ve been 2 passes of FCRC (5 setting and 3 setting) and then one pass of DACP followed with Mezerna IP using a Yellow Pad and Menzerna IP with a White Pad, and then AIO. I can say I got rid of 80% of the fine scratches and swirls and what not and rounded off the hairline scratches.. It`s a lot more smoother and shinier but I think I might have taken off a bit too much Clear Coat cause I did 2 passes of FCRC. I dunno let`s hope not :D



Oh and I still find it weird that FCRC didn`t haze my clear coat at all... :nixweiss

[TortoiseAWD]

FCRC with the PC is still not terribly agressive; two passes are nothing to be concerned about, IMO. And, if you work FCRC out completely (as it sounds you did), it doesn`t leave a haze; that`s one of its benefits.



Tort

[imported_Indy YZF]

Guys, Ive done alot of work with the PC on all different types of paint damage. And in general, Id have to agree with COEX-PILOT.



However, even though I will resort to the rotary if nothing else works, I will dry damned hard to get it out with the PC first. I still run a little gunshy every time I use the rotary. Anyway, to that end, before switching to the rotary, I believe in trying the most aggressive combo on the PC first. And that, without a doubt, is with a wool pad, like Meguiars wool cutting pad, for instance. On scratches that only get rounded with foam pads, Ive had pretty good luck using the PC with the wool pad and something like 3M fine cut or Medium cut rubbing compound. Believe it or not, on my white M3, this doesnt even leave much of a haze, but it does do a pretty good job at solving problems nothing else on the PC will accomplish. If this doesnt do it, then its on to the rotary. But I would strongly recommend you guys try this idea first. Use plenty of pressure at a high speed on the dial. Follow up with the typical foam pad and SMR type product afterward followed by wax. It just might restore some of your lost faith in the PC for this type of damage.