Will BlackFire PP Smear? How do I prevent

[Spilchy]

I bought Blackfire PP a few months ago. I hope I have the new version that you guys talk about. How can I tell if I have BFPP II?



I am going to be using BF after I do a lot of polishing.



I`ll be using DACP, #9 then #3 machine glaze.



My question is, when I lay the BF on top of that, will it smear? How can I prevent that from happening? Should I wash the car after all that polishing. Should I QD instead?



I do not want to layer the whole car with BFPP and then have to contend with smearing and smudging.

[hondaguy2582]

yes you have bf2, its been out since october. Apply bf2 as thin as possible(difficult to see on light colored cars, but only a nickel sized drop is needed, maybe less per panel). Id stay away from glazes if your using bf2, it will not bond to a glaze like #3(has oils) and #9 has fillers also. I personally think glazing is a waste of time when applying a polymer bc it creates bonding issues, just use a paint cleaner like klasse aio that contains no fillers or oils. Btw, i have aio topped with bf2 on my car right now, its been over a month, and it beads like crazy.:)

[Spilchy]

Thanks Abercrombie! However, a while ago (before I had this question) CMA said NOT to use AIO and BFPP together like you mentioned! You know the "Reference Shine" link under "Staff Recomendations" on CMA`s site? Last year Terry had #3 listed prior to using BFPP which he topped with Souveran. So he used a synthetic over a glaze!



Oh well! I guess it`s all relative.

[imported_memnuts]

Apply thinly and you should not have a problem with smearing. Allow to dry at least 45 minutes, longer if humid.



You may want to QD with a non-carnuaba type QD ( EO Wet, Quick Shine, Poorboy`s Spray & Wipe :xyxthumbs) to remove any excess oils from your glaze application. In other words, if your surface has a tendency to smear after applying #7 and #3 it will just become worst if you apply BFII on top. This would not be a BFII problem but a proper prep issue. :wavey

[Spilchy]

Originally posted by blkZ28Conv

Apply thinly and you should not have a problem with smearing. Allow to dry at least 45 minutes, longer if humid.



You may want to QD with a non-carnuaba type QD ( EO Wet, Quick Shine, Poorboy`s Spray & Wipe :xyxthumbs) to remove any excess oils from your glaze application. In other words, if your surface has a tendency to smear after applying #7 and #3 it will just become worst if you apply BFII on top. This would not be a BFII problem but a proper prep issue. :wavey



Thanks "Z", I have EO QD which I`ll use to wipe down with my Magic Towel MF`s after the polishing / glazing.



I know someone who applies BFPP and then eats dinner and comes back to wipe down!

[imported_memnuts]

Originally posted by Spilchy

.



I know someone who applies BFPP and then eats dinner and comes back to wipe down!



Thanks Spilchy,



I have done that or detailed other parts of the car and have even allowed to dry over-night ( garaged) with excellent results and no increased effort of removal.

:xyxthumbs

[hondaguy2582]

yep, i allowed it to dry overnight also, worked very well. Btw, i called up cma, and the technician i talked to said it would not bond to anything with oils in it, but it would bond to an acrylic.

[Nick T.]

Success with Blackfire has eluded me. I got my first bottle in mid-February so it is BF2. It looked good on top of Zaino - very little loss of clarity and much more depth. I was really pleased with it until I rubbed it with my finger to check for silkiness and saw the smudging. Spent a lot of time over several days playing with application and removal methods and techniques. It soon became obvious that a very thin coat was needed, but it made little difference if the BF was rubbed in or just wiped on. For removal I varied the drying time from just before complete hazing to letting it sit overnight. Best results were obtained from applying a very thin layer and letting it dry for a couple of hours, but even then there was a lot of oiliness on my black paint. A lot of buffing would remove the oiliness, but resulted in the loss of apparent depth - which was the main purpose of using it in the first place. :down



A couple of weeks ago I phoned CMA and asked to speak with a BF expert. The guy (don’t remember his name now) was knowledgeable, helpful, and friendly. His bottom line was that CMA had heard no complaints of excessive oiliness and that maybe my bottle of BF had come from a “bad batch� and he offered to send me a replacement bottle. Great customer service from CMA! :up



The new bottle arrived a week ago and I got the same results. My test area this time was the deck lid which I prepped using a PC and Meg’s #2 and #9 because there was some micro-marring I wanted to deal with. Then washed with Dawn and hand applied BF GEP before using the new BF AFPP. I added one more test: very thin coat and let it “cook� for over two hours with 500W of halogen about 16� from the test area. Still susceptible to finger smudges! <IMG SRC=http://home.jps.net/~ntaylor/images/frown.gif>



My bottom line with Blackfire: either I’m too anal about smudges or too dumb to learn how to use it properly! Today it goes in a box and into the big brown truck so somebody else can try it. Hopefully it’ll work out better for him! <IMG SRC=http://home.jps.net/~ntaylor/images/finger-cross.gif>



<CENTER>:usa</CENTER>

[Spilchy]

Thanks so much for the reply. It seems that people are having great success or failure!



I`ve e-mailed CMA my plan, and I`ll see what they say and I`ll post it here.



If it doesn`t work out, I`ll use it on my wheels. CMA recommends that! Sounds interesting. That`ll be one expensive wheel treatment!

[Nick T.]

I just now got off the phone after speaking with Phil at CMA about my experiences with Blackfire. He also was knowledgeable and friendly, but couldn’t offer any ideas on how to improve my results. Phil did say that this weekend he would play with BF on his black SUV and take a critical look at the results.



My opinion remains that either I’m too anal about my black paint or too dumb to use BF properly - probably a summation of the two!



BTW, he did offer to accept the AFPP, GEP, and GS&C back for a full refund since I’m not happy with it. I declined since it’s going to another detailer. Great customer service CMA! :xyxthumbs



<CENTER>:usa</CENTER>

[andriver]

Hey Nick,



I also had the same problem on my wife`s black mustang. However, BF worked great on my Grand Cherokee.



I thought perhaps I was applying too much product on the mustang. It smeared and buffing it only made it worse. I think for her car I will go back to using Pinnacle wax.....Andrew

[Nick T.]

:welcome to Autopia Andrew!



I should have added in my previous post that BF was adequate on my white Suburban. The smudging was barely noticeable.



<CENTER>:usa</CENTER>

[Spilchy]

FOLLOW UP:



I e-mailed CMA my original post here. I explained to them my routine.



I was e-mailed back by two people, both of whom said my recipe for my detail was correct and that I should have no problems.



I was told that BFPP will have no problem bonding to the oils in the #3 machine glaze or any of the other polishing agents I`ll be using.



We`ll see!

[mrdetailer]

I`ve used a formulation like yours on 2 of my vehicles, one of them blaze red, and have really enjoyed the results. I won`t use any other synthetic on my conventional red. It really looks fantastic after the Machine Glaze. I always apply a second coat of BFPP a week or 2 after the first one.