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View Full Version : Looking for mild polish to prepare for Zaino or Klasse



Bruce
04-21-2003, 11:47 AM
I’m looking for a polish/glaze/cleaner/swirl remover—whatever it might be called—with a mild abrasive to use as the last step before using a sealant such as Zaino or Klasse. It’s turning out to be more puzzling than I would have thought.



My first detailing (learned right here at Autopia!) was on medium green paint that had been neglected for six years. The results were stunning. I did a lot of experimenting, but I basically used 3M’s FI-II with a PC (3.5, white pad), Dawn wash, then Zaino, with a few panels of Klasse for comparison. 90% of the improvement came from the FI-II, smooth and glossy finish before the first drop of Zaino was used. Unfortunately, by the time I was done I had contracted Autopia fever (no matter how good your car looks, could it have been better?). So this time around I would like to ramp down after the FI-II with a slightly milder abrasive, but I keep running into two mysteries:



1. It’s often difficult or impossible to tell how abrasive a product is, or even if it contains an abrasive at all. For example, 3M’s web site puts FI-II in it’s Rubbing Compound category, and lists its swirlmark remover under Glazes and Polishes. So I can presume the SMR is milder, and possibly a good candidate for me. But does it even contain an abrasive, or does it just hide the swirls? I can’t tell.



2. The highly regarded products usually use fillers and other additives to hide swirls and enhance gloss. This is fine if you’re going to use carnauba, but wasted with sealants. Sal Zaino wants you to get rid of all that stuff and leave your paint squeaky clean with a Dawn wash; Klasse does the job for you with the cleaning element in AIO. Thus, you might think you have taken care of hairline scratches, only to see them reappear when you start the sealant process. On the other hand, just because a product uses fillers doesn’t mean that it is wrong for the job. It could still provide the less aggressive abrasive I’m looking for, although I wouldn’t know for sure how I stood with the micro-marring until after using the sealant.



Having said all this, I realize that many of you—myself included—have achieved sterling results with Zaino or Klasse without going through all this mental agony. As anal or obsessive-compulsive as this may sound, there is one thing that I do know. Autopians will understand.

imported_Dude
04-21-2003, 01:30 PM
Pretty much anything will do it. 3M SMR does have abrasives. It also contains oils, so after you use it, you should do a Dawn wash to remove them. I have also used Einszett`s Paint Polish with excellent results. It is abrasive, and I don`t believe it contains any oils, but again, you can do a Dawn wash after using it just to make sure the paint is totally clean.



The approach you used before will work perfectly this time. Use the abrasive product, and then do a Dawn wash. The abrasive will remove the swirls, and a Dawn was will remove any oils or residue that was left behind by the abrasive.



I can recommend Meguiar`s DACP in addition to Einszett Paint Polish and SMR. Of these three, the Einszett is my favorite. It removes oxidation very, very quicky, and breaks down almost immedaitely without leaving a haze behind. 3M SMR is more of a pain to use becuase it breaks down very slowly and can easily leave a haze if you are not careful. However, for really deep swirl removal, you might need something harsher. The next step up in the Einszett line, Ultra Paint Polish, is really too harsh, though. I would not use if for swirls; it is much too abrsasive. Einszett doesn`t really make anything that is in between those two. If you are looking for an intermediate polsih, you might try Meg`s DACP or 3M FIII. People also like those Menzerna and Farecla polishes, though I haven`t used them so I can`t tell you much about them.



If you are using a PC, I`d use a polishing pad with these products. I usually do two passes at 4.5, and a final pass at 9, or whatever the highest setting is, just to make sure that the product has been completely worked into the surface. You should get a near swirl-free (they are never completely swirl-free) surface this way with Paint Polish or DACP.

imported_Smoker
04-21-2003, 05:18 PM
I agree DACP is an excellent product, leaves very little or no residue and gets rid of all but the deepest scratches.



3M SMR I believe isnt very abrasive at all (its the mildest of the 3M line) but has plenty of fillers to mask the swirls.



By washing them out afterwards your probably wasting your time using it in the first place.



DACPs diminishing abrasives leave the paint ready for a glaze without any further attention in my opinion.

Porterhouse
04-21-2003, 06:47 PM
I plan on using #9. After applying that, should I wash again with dawn or is it a waste of time?

BoxsterCharlie
04-21-2003, 06:49 PM
I really like P21S Paintwork Cleanser. It`s the gentlest product I know of--but I haven`t yet had a chance to try Menzerna Final yet.



You can get a great deal on P21S`s starter kit, BTW. It includes a can of wax and wheel cleaner, both of which are at the head of the class!

magbarn
04-23-2003, 10:10 PM
What about following SMR with GEPC then follow with Z-2? Should I dawn wash between the SMR/GEPC or GEPC/Z-2?

Bruce
04-24-2003, 07:17 AM
Magbarn: Whatever you do to prepare your paint, always wash with Dawn just before your first Zaino application. Sal Zaino wants your paint to be squeaky clean so that first Zaino layer can lock on to your paint. The Dawn is supposed to remove all traces of waxes, oils, fillers or other gloss enhancers or swirl hiders that are often left on the paint when you use polishes and swirlmark removers.



No point in a Dawn wash between SMR and GEPC. A cleaner will pretty much clean up what the last product left behind, and do its own thing. But definately Dawn wash between GEPC and Zaino.



I`ve never used GEPC, which sounds like a great product if you are intending to lock in the shine with carnauba wax. But it wouldn`t occur to me to use it in preparation for sealing with Zaino, because the Dawn would remove all of the wonderful things GEPC left behind on your paint.

imported_Dude
04-24-2003, 05:53 PM
I think it`s still a good idea to use GEPC, because it is more than just a glaze. It also contains chemical cleaners which will remove minor oxidation, stains, etc.



Bruce is right; you need to Dawn wash after using GEPC, #9, SMR, or any other cleaner.

Bruce
04-24-2003, 11:08 PM
Dude, I just read a long thread that suggests maybe I`m not right about Dawn ("Nick`s unsolicited Zaino tips and tricks" in this forum). Nick T. believes you can have the swirl hiding advantages of SMR, GEPC and even IHG with Zaino by washing with Zaino wash (Z7) instead of Dawn. He says it washes off the oils, but not the fillers, so you can have the best of both worlds with Zaino.



At one point Brad B. jumped in, and I THINK he didn`t agree, but he`s so darn diplomatic I couldn`t tell for sure.



Any thoughts?

Michaelwdes
04-25-2003, 04:34 AM
sat am i am going to Z a 36 day old new car. I am going to use either #80 (speed glaze) or s100 sec first. then dawn wash and start the Z process. i will let you guys know how it somes out.

imported_Smoker
04-25-2003, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by flyby

sat am i am going to Z a 36 day old new car. I am going to use either #80 (speed glaze) or s100 sec first. then dawn wash and start the Z process. i will let you guys know how it somes out.



Using a glaze then Dawn washing is pretty pointless.



A glazes main function is to make the paint shine using oils & fillers and then yer goin to wash em all out again.



SEC might be a better choice, but youll still diminish some of its properties washing it afterwards.

Thomasfl
04-25-2003, 11:46 AM
I have used the Menzerna polishes before Klasse quite a few times, really prepares the surface well, actually I think the Menzerna could be a little more brighter than than AIO. Supposedly the Menzerna doesn`t have any fillers, if so I would think that you should be able to put Z over it no problem.