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View Full Version : Is P21S / S100 Really Made In Germany?



MBZ 500E
03-27-2003, 08:37 PM
Ok I can`t take credit for this finding, another member of this site pointed this out to me last night and it has me wondering.



Looks to me like the P21S and S100 we buy here in the US is actually made in the US and is not the same as what is sold in Germany?



Here`s the link:

http://www.tourolaw.edu/2ndCircuit/March00/s99-7389.html



Here`s the story:



UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS





Plaintiff-counter-defendant-appellant Dr. O.K. Wack Chemie GmbH ("Wack"), a German corporation, appeals from a final judgment of the district court in favor of defendants-counter-plaintiffs-appellees Brookside Import Specialties, Inc. ("Brookside"), a Connecticut corporation, and Stephen ``` ("```"), Brookside`s president and sole shareholder (collectively "BIS"). The judgment was on various counterclaims brought by BIS. On BIS`s counterclaim seeking confirmation of BIS`s ownership of disputed trademarks, the district court granted summary judgment to BIS. On BIS`s breach of contract counterclaim, a jury trial was held and the jury found for BIS and awarded both compensatory and punitive damages. Wack appeals from the grant of summary judgment and from the jury verdict and damage awards. We affirm.





BACKGROUND



Wack is a German corporation that develops, manufactures, and sells automobile and motorcycle cleaning products and industrial chemicals. In 1983, BIS contacted Wack to inquire about distributing Wack`s products in the United States. The parties entered into an oral agreement whereby BIS became the exclusive U.S. distributor for Wack. Up to that point, Wack had never distributed its products in this country. Wack began shipping its P21S and S100 wheel cleaners to BIS in February 1984.



Wack allowed BIS to exercise total control of the U.S. marketing of P21S and S100 and consented to simply "supply[ing] the product." BIS discussed product names with Wack, but BIS made the final decision to use the P21S and S100 marks for U.S. distribution. In July 1984 ``` discussed registering the two marks in the United States. On August 6, 1984, Dr. Oskar K. Wack ("Dr. Wack"), managing director of Wack, sent BIS a letter authorizing the latter to "file P 21-S as your own brand name for the USA and Canada." In a similar letter sent on September 5, 1985, Dr. Wack authorized BIS to "file S-100 as your own brand name for the USA and Canada." Both trademarks were eventually registered -- with Wack`s full knowledge and agreement -- in BIS`s name. On October 22, 1990, BIS filed documents with the Patent and Trademark Office ("PTO") to establish the incontestability of the P21S trademark, and on February 19, 1991 the PTO declared the mark incontestable. BIS filed similar papers covering the S100 trademark in 1991, which was declared incontestable by the PTO on March 9, 1992.



In July 1987, while the two parties were discussing the possibility of producing P21S and S100 products in the United States, a dispute arose between them concerning the ownership of the two trademarks. In a July 27, 1987 fax to ```, Dr. Wack stated that "you [```] assume that these [trademarks] belong to [BIS]." Despite this apparent disagreement concerning trademark ownership, Wack continued to do business with BIS under the 1983 oral agreement until June 25, 1991, when Dr. Wack faxed ``` a letter stating Wack`s intention to rescind the oral agreement on December 31, 1991 and to replace it with a written contract. At least in part because of an inability to agree over trademark rights, the parties failed to consummate a new contract by the December 31 deadline. Nevertheless, they continued to negotiate and to do business after the beginning of 1992. Finally, on April 8, 1992, Dr. Wack broke off negotiations (again, over the trademark issue) and refused to ship any further products.



BIS thereafter found a new supplier of cleaning products and chemicals, which it continued to sell under the P21S and S100 marks. Wack then filed suit seeking a declaration that it owned the trademarks (count one) and a cancellation of the registrations of the two trademarks pursuant to 15 U.S.C. § 1115(b) (count two). In addition, Wack alleged false designation of origin, fraud, and unclean hands by BIS (count three), common law trademark infringement (count four), and state law unfair trade practices (count five). BIS counterclaimed, seeking a declaratory judgment vesting title to the disputed trademarks in BIS (counterclaim one). BIS also alleged Lanham Act trademark infringement (counterclaim two), Lanham Act unfair competition (counterclaim three), common law trademark infringement (counterclaim four), tortious interference with contract (counterclaim five), state law unfair trade practices (counterclaim six), and breach of contract (counterclaim seven).



Cross-motions for summary judgment were referred to a magistrate judge. The magistrate recommended that the district court grant summary judgment in favor of BIS on all of Wack`s claims and grant summary judgment in favor of Wack on BIS`s counterclaims two (Lanham Act infringement), three (Lanham Act unfair competition), four (common law infringement) and six (state law unfair trade practices). Finally, the magistrate recommended that the district court grant summary judgment for BIS on counterclaim one (seeking a declaration vesting title in the trademarks in BIS) and deny Wack`s motion for summary judgment on counterclaims five (tortious interference with contract) and seven (breach of contract). The district court followed each of these recommendations.



A jury trial was held on BIS`s breach of contract counterclaim, 1 in which the primary issue was whether Wack had given BIS sufficient notice prior to terminating its contractual relationship in April 1992. The jury found in favor of BIS and awarded $100,460.90 in compensatory damages. It also found that BIS was entitled to punitive damages, which the district court subsequently set at $91,341.00. Wack now appeals. He argues, first, that the district court erred in granting summary judgment for BIS on the issue of trademark ownership, second, that the jury trial on the breach of contract claim was unfairly tainted by the district court`s determination of the trademark ownership issue, third, that the jury`s award of compensatory damages was not supported by the evidence, and, finally, that the district court erred in allowing the jury to consider an award of punitive damages and in giving confusing punitive damages instructions.



We affirm substantially for the reasons given by the district court. To the extent that Wack seeks to argue issues not raised below (e.g., that it held common law rights in the marks and hence that their registration by BIS had not become incontestable, and that punitive damages are not available for breach of contract under Connecticut law or that the district court`s instructions on punitive damages were unduly confusing) we deem these contentions waived and express no view as to their merits.







CONCLUSION



We have considered all of Wack`s contentions and find them to be without merit. The judgment of the district court is therefore AFFIRMED.



For the Court,





ROSEANN B. MACKECHNIE



Court Clerk





Whats the deal?

Lemonxxs
03-27-2003, 09:33 PM
This was discussed on here some time ago....maybe a search will turn up the thread and it will have some info in it....:wavey

DETAILKING
03-28-2003, 12:49 AM
.....And Budwiser makes some SAM ADAMS (microbrew) Beer. The recipe is the same. What is the big deal?



I use what works and am not impressed by bogus marketing claims. It is frustrating though how misleading this industry is though......for sure.

MBZ 500E
03-28-2003, 12:59 AM
It really doesn`t make a difference where the product is made no doubt about that.



But what confuses me is this. Is the P21S and S100 sold in Germany the same product as the US? I remember reading that Autopia is selling detailing products and concentrating on products sold out of Europe, P21S was on their list.



I did a search and couldn`t find the old thread, just want to clarify everything in my own mind.:nixweiss



Its amazing just how many different beers budweiser and Ahueser makes, I know Kirin is also made here in the states!

DETAILKING
03-28-2003, 01:08 AM
Manufacturing and designing are two separate things. BMW`s are now made in South Africa.....but are still German cars that were german engineered. If a product was developed in Germany, it could be manufactured anywhere for efficient economies. It`s still the same product (as long as quality control is present). Conversely, if Turtle wax was manufactured in Germany........its still TURTLE WAX!

MBZ 500E
03-28-2003, 01:14 AM
Hmmm maybe thats my problem, when I read the article I assumed that the Connecticut company used the P21S name to market their own product, the company had the rights to the name but not the product.



Sounds like your saying that they are making the same product here in the US with the same name but original formula.



Case closed, I`ll pass the info on to other inquiring minds.

tslugmo
03-28-2003, 03:01 AM
I think the confusion stems from this line:




BIS thereafter found a new supplier of cleaning products and chemicals, which it continued to sell under the P21S and S100 marks.



So the question is whether or not this supplier was supplying the same product, or whether this was just a different product which was marketed under the same brand. But in the end this would likely be a moot point, since waxguru reports and other`s experiences are likely using the US version of this product, and it has proven itself to be a superior product regardless of where its from, right?



At least I`ve been quite happy with it.



-tslug

Lowejackson
03-28-2003, 03:23 AM
I have tried most of the Dr Wack range, I really like the products, easy to use and produce good results. The shampoo for example is just as good, IMO as Zaino`s shampoo.



Steven

imported_Aurora40
03-28-2003, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by MBZ 500E

It really doesn`t make a difference where the product is made no doubt about that.





Really? It makes a difference to me. Not trying to start anything, just opining. And this is not to say I won`t buy things that are imported or anything, but it is one of the factors I consider, just like price, performance, or whatever. To me it does make a difference. :nixweiss

GP Infinity
03-28-2003, 09:55 AM
Germany is now threatening a boycott of American made goods, I for one am relieved to know that S100 is NOT German made.. I would hate to have to change to another wax...

MBZ 500E
03-28-2003, 10:42 AM
You guys kill me, from now on I will include all details.:p ;)





AuroraV8,



Ok when I say "It doesn`t matter where the product is made" I mean that irregardless of it`s origin it is a great product.



Now if we want to go one step further and say where do you prefer to buy things from......well to be honest I try to buy all my products from the local stores in my town. :) I want to support my town and those that try to make a living here as I do. To me it doesn`t matter where the produt originated as long as it meets my requirements, but I like to make sure the local guys/gals make some profit so for example mail order is only a last resort.



Lowejackson,



Have you tried Dr. Wacks waxes, are the labels on his products any different than the US labeled P21S products?

Lowejackson
03-28-2003, 12:05 PM
With the exception of wax, Wacks product line looks similar to the P21S range found in the USA. The Wack wax is a liquid, I have not tried it but I am told by Richpug306xsi that it is a good product, he also has S100 to compare it against.



Steven

SoTex
03-28-2003, 06:09 PM
This was previously posted by...me when I was a legal analyst.





No worries. The site crashed sometime ago. I think I found this just under a year ago.



I also posted information regarding the fact that Turtle Wax makes Zymol. I actually posted a pic (was on my signature line for a while) of Zymol products in TW packaging straight from the factory.



Believe it or not, people still argued that there was no relation between TW and Zymol.



:rolleyes: