cheap orbital buffer (walmart special)

[1andrews]

My friend has one of those cheap (I think 20 dollars) 10inch orbital buffers. Its the only thing of its kind I have access to. I wouldn`t care at all about using it, but I want to get the mild swirl marks I have out, and I have been reading how darn near impossible that is to do by hand.



So would this be good to use with 3m SMR (or at least better than doing it by hand). Are there any serious dangers I should be aware of as long as im careful and the car is clean and the pad is new?



last question is, what should the pad be made of when using SMR? foam? cotton?



Thanks!!!!

[Jngrbrdman]

Ooooooooh.... I don`t trust those cheapy buffers. If you aren`t very familiar with how to use these kinds of machines then it is totally possible to do more damage than you are trying to remove. I had a couple jobs last year from guys who thought they would tackle their swirls themselves and ended up making a mess of things. How much have you worked with those kinds of buffers?



I would start off with something milder than SMR if your swirls are just mild ones. Maybe go with something like Meguiar`s #9. That would be a good starting point. Its a lot easier to work with than SMR as well. You can always go over it again if it doesn`t take out all the swirls on the first pass. I think you run less of a risk damaging your car further with #9 than SMR.



edit: Oh, PS.... foam. Not cotton. Cotton is for buffing off the residue. Foam is for swirl removal. At least, that`s what I believe. I don`t think they make a cotton pad for the PC so I`m not familiar with what you would use anything made of cotton with a buffer.

[1andrews]

UGh! NOT another product...hahaha.



Well you`ve scared me, so what I`m going to do is try it out on something besides my car first (which means I`m completely inexperienced...but you have to start somehwere right??)



So what I`m getting from you is to use meguiars #9 with the cheap orbital if I feel comfortable...



Can you tell me what specifically is dangerous about using one of these (pushing too hard? slipping and hitting the paint with the edge? possible dirt in the pad??)



If there is a good thread on this and you know of it, you can just point me on my way if I`m being repeptive (sorry, hope I`m not).



Thanks

[Jngrbrdman]

Originally posted by emobob

UGh! NOT another product...hahaha.



Well you`ve scared me, so what I`m going to do is try it out on something besides my car first (which means I`m completely inexperienced...but you have to start somehwere right??)



So what I`m getting from you is to use meguiars #9 with the cheap orbital if I feel comfortable...



Can you tell me what specifically is dangerous about using one of these (pushing too hard? slipping and hitting the paint with the edge? possible dirt in the pad??)



If there is a good thread on this and you know of it, you can just point me on my way if I`m being repeptive (sorry, hope I`m not).



Thanks



There are a couple threads out there that I can think of. I`ll see if I can find them for you.



Among other dangers there are the risks you mentioned as well as creating monster swirls and marring the paint to the point you will probably need a pro to fix it. Just take it nice and slow and you`ll be fine. The thing that machines save you on is the physical work. The human arm just can`t rub as long as a swirl removing job requires you to rub. (unless you`ve gotten used to it and have pythons like Scottwax has) Some machines just work better than others I guess. I`ll hit the search and see what I can find to help you out a little more. :)

[Jngrbrdman]

This seems like a pretty good thread... CLICK HERE (http://www.autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=7227) I did a search for "cheap buffer" and came up with some good stuff. I`d suggest looking that way. The thread titles are pretty self explanitory. :xyxthumbs hope that helps.

[Degislek]

Hi Emobob,



I am also kind of new to detailing but I`ll tell you my exp`s with those cheap buffers. On my last car I used SMR with a cheap craftsman 10" buffer and it sort of worked. Those buffers are not powerful enough to breakdown the abrasives fully so if you use it with SMR you will have to make a second pass with a polish such as Meg`s number 7 to remove the hazing that will occur. I would agree with jngrbrdman that you should start with number 9 and a foam pad. Also when your wallet allows it get a PC you wont regret it.

[imported_Intermezzo]

Originally posted by Jngrbrdman

I would start off with something milder than SMR if your swirls are just mild ones. Maybe go with something like Meguiar`s #9.



Jngrbrdman,



Don`t mean to change the subject here, but I noticed that your posts usually point towards 3M`s SMR being `significantly` more abrasive or having stronger cutting power than Meguiar`s SMR. Do you really see that much of a difference? I`ve only been using these two products for about half a year now, but quite frankly, the only difference I can tell between these two is that 3M`s SMR spreads a little easier because it contains more oils. In terms of cutting ability, I had a difficult time telling them apart. They both seem like very mild products with light cutting ability and more fillers than anything else. In my experience, they both do a great job of cleaning up micro-swirls or hazing caused by compounding with something stronger. Were you able to notice a large difference between these two?



Thanks.



Tony

[Jngrbrdman]

Actually, I tested SMR against #9 once on a car. I wanted to see if there really was a difference. The SMR side showed definate differences in swirl reduction. I concluded that #9 would be great for mild problems and SMR would be better for worse situations.



SMR comes in different strengths, doesn`t it? I think it does. I can see the label in my mind and I`m pretty sure it was a SMR bottle. If you have the mild SMR then I`m sure it wouldn`t do much better than #9. The strong stuff definatly makes a difference though. That`s just my own results though. We all know that products work differently for different cars and techniques, etc.

[imported_Intermezzo]

3M Perfect-It Foam Polishing Pad Glaze Swirlmark Remover only comes in one strength. They do however, make one for light colored cars and another for dark colored cars.

[shaf]

Sorry for adding another voice to this debate, but... :)



Aren`t even those cheap buffers random orbit motion (just like the PC)? That`s what they always say on the box and literature. So shouldn`t they be just as harmless to use as the PC? :nixweiss



As far as I know, products called "swirl removers" only come in one grade per manufacturer. Meguiar`s has #9, and 3M has just the light and dark versions of their (copy & paste :p) 3M Perfect-It Foam Polishing Pad Glaze Swirlmark Remover. Other products may remove swirls as well, but they`re called other names. Maybe one is a tiny bit stronger than the other or has more effective fillers?



I looked into some of these bonnets for the cheap machines, and read the packaging on bonnets made by Waxmaster. I can`t remember for sure, but I believe the terry bonnets are for buffing, while the weird blue, thin surgical cloth-like bonnet is disposable (!) and used for wax application. The real kicker though (and this one I`m sure of) is that the foam bonnet is for dry buffing the finish! :eek:



Totally ignoring their advice, what I would do is put on a blue waxing bonnet (assuming that it doesn`t allow the product to soak through and ruin the foam pad attached to the machine) and then put a terry or foam pad ontop of that and apply products with it that way. People frequently use foam or terry cloth to apply waxes, polishes, etc, so I would try and mimic this.

[1andrews]

I really appreciate everyone trying to help out!

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"Aren`t even those cheap buffers random orbit motion (just like the PC)? That`s what they always say on the box and literature. So shouldn`t they be just as harmless to use as the PC? "

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Yep, random orbit buffer. Sorry I wasn`t clear at first.

Biggest difference I can tell is it won`t spin as fast(no variable speed) and it doesnt have the `velcro` backing. I might have concern that I can`t polish out all of the polish remnants...if that makes sense.

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"The real kicker though (and this one I`m sure of) is that the foam bonnet is for dry buffing the finish! "

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Coming home from work I stopped at autozone and picked up a TW 9"-10" Foam bonnet. It says "use for buffing and polishing. Use with all 9 and 10-inch, buffers and polishers"



It was fairly expensive (5 bucks) but its nice soft foam, about a 1/4 of inch thicks.



My first run at this is with my fathers truck using meguiar`s deep crystal polish (I tried to get the proffessional line but he said he doesnt care, so well....)



If it works out I`ll use it with the 3M SMR on my car.



Sound good? any tips?



Also, can one get "spiderwebbing" in a new car with blue mettalic paint. Because what I have in my car is just faint lines that reflect only in the sunlight...I guess its hard to describe ( it probably is just dealer installed swirl marks though, blegh)

[1andrews]

I understand the PC is more effective, but I can`t afford it right now!



So unless someone wants to send me one for free....haha!...I`ll try this I guess!