Swirl Remover + PC

[ragtopgolfer]

I am interested in learning how to swirl remove but I also want to keep startup costs low (being for a business and all). So while the business is small I would prefer to do this by hand.



Is this going to be a pain similar to buffing out wax?

If swirl removing is to be done by hand what products will I be using:







If doing by hand is a bad idea what products do I need to buy and how much will it cost?





Greatly Appreciated.

[imported_doug]

You can HIDE swirls by hand. You can also remove them, but your arm will fall off long before you`re done with a single car. You most certainly won`t be able to make money because the job will take way too long by hand. even with an orbital it takes a lot of work - if iwere in this as a business there is only one way I would do swirl removal and that would be with a rotary buffer. But I`m not, so I use the orbital, which is safer.



Swirl removal is MUCH, MUCH harder and take MUCH, MUCH more time than buffing out wax. (Buffing out wax SHOULD be easy. If it isn`t, it is usally because you either applied too much, didn`t let it cure long enough, or let it cure too long before buffing it out - depends on the wax. )

[DrewD]

I`ve had moterate success using 3M SMR by hand. I really only use it in tight spots where a PC wouldn`t fit. However, you`d be crazy to try and use SMR over an entire car by hand! I know some here have done it, but you`d practically tear a bicept muscle trying to get the desired finish.

[Jngrbrdman]

Scottwax is my hero. He doesn`t even use a machine. Of course, he has arms like a tree trunk too. I couldn`t imagine removing oxidation and swirls without a machine. I shudder to think of all the work and effort I put forth on jobs where I got half the results that I would have gotten with a machine. I shudder to think of all the swirls I`ve put in my own car trying to do things without a machine.



If you are starting a business then I would definatly suggest using a machine to do your work. Not only does it make you appear to know what you are doing but it will also give you superior resutls. I`m sure that Scott knows how to use a PC, but he`s a purist and prefers to use his hands. I totally respect him for that. Not many detailers would do that.



Waxing can be done by hand. I use paste waxes usually and those are tricky to do by machine anyway. I like getting my hands on the car and really getting to know the problems on it. A PC is too impersonal for some jobs. I would definatly suggest using one for any kind of paint cleaning or swirl removing. Doing it by hand requires a lot of skill and experience to get results like a machine.



You can get a PC and all the pads you`ll need for about $200. Good swirl mark removers and paint cleaners are about 10 bucks a bottle. I`d say if you had about $300 bucks or so to invest in equipment and products then you would have a great start for your operation. Get some towels, some good carnauba, maybe start out with Klasse as a sealant because its cheaper and eaiser to use than most, shop around for a PC, get the pad kit from CMA, a few polishes from AutoZone and you are set.

[shaf]

You "can" (are able to) use a swirl remover by hand, but unless you`re Scott, your results will probably be inferior. I`ve done it a couple times, but I found that after a lot of sweat and time you will see little gain for your work. Part of the problem is simple human impatience and endurance. Soon after working a few areas really well you`ll get impatient and gradually start rushing through it. The result of this is you don`t work in the SMR long enough to let do much actual polishing. One reason to use a PC is that it can work a polish much faster than you ever could, and it`s not as tiring to work an area longer - both big advantages.



Some people have tried partially compensating by stepping up to a stronger product (like DACP) but if you`re doing this for money I would definitely go with some form of machine application.

[Jngrbrdman]

Originally posted by 4DSC

...if you`re doing this for money I would definitely go with some form of machine application.



Totally true. Unless you are on an hourly rate working for someone else then time is most definatly money. Depending on how much money you are charging then you should try and get it done as soon as you can and still get the results you want.

[ragtopgolfer]

Thanks guys you all answered the questions to the bone !