I give up! : ) Please help

[Scott301]

Hello all.



Well, yesterday and today I attempted to detail my new black / black interior 2003 BMW 325i. I read and read all I could and bought what I thought were the best products.



I started out by doing a dawn wash with a Pinn. natural sponge. I then started to notice starches. The dealer didn`t touch or detail the car as I requested so I take it the sponge scratched the car although it comes washed from Pinn. and I rinsed it twice. Anyway, I then clayed the car because the car had been transported by train in Germany and when it arrived at port here. I then washed the car with P21s car wash and used the Pinn. cotton wash mit due to the scratches I saw earlier. The scratches were still there but I think there were even more at this point. I then used P21s cleansing lotion and the scratches were still there from what I could tell. I then put on AIO. I wasn`t sure about doing this after the cleansing lotion. Anyway, after a good coat of AIO per instructions I found on here. I then put on SG and let it sit overnight because it was getting dark. I covered the car overnight. I removed it this morning with Sonus spritz and the wet towel method. Today I topped it with P21s. The car looked great as you can see by some of the pics I posted. However, scratches are still there. Tonight I drove it around and parked it under some bright lights. I then noticed some hazing it appeared. Maybe it was just in my mind. Anyway, I am about to come to the conclusion that maybe I should pay someone else to do this and do it right. I enjoy detailing and have been doing it for many years on my own cars. However, when the finish doesn`t come out the way I would like, I`m not a happy camper so I guess this is a venting post as well. I love black cars and I don`t mind cleaning often if needed but I must be doing something wrong. I use a 3 bucket method to wash. One red bucket for only washing tires, rims and two yellow buckets for washing (one for soap and the other to rinse).



Any suggestions on what I should do? It is getting colder here in NC and I will probably end up having to wait a while before I go at it again. I also have a PC that I haven`t used yet because I`ve been scared that I would cause damage to the car but I proved that I can do that by hand.



Thank you for your help! I`ll go bang my head on the wall until I figure this out.

Brad

[Steve @ Guru]

For the record, I have *NEVER* been a fan of sea sponges for several reasons, the least of which is that the sea sponge lives in a sandy environment, and no matter how much prep a manufacturer puts into the sponge, there`s still going to be sand trapped somewhere in that sponge...and with our friend Murphy by our side, the sand will usually release at the most inopportune time.



Ok, with that rant over, I have a few questions:



1) Are you absolutely positive that the dealer did no prep work? None? Not even a wash?



2) What were you drying with?



3) Did you really rinse the car well before the first wash?



4) How long did you work in the P21S GEPC and AIO?

[Scott301]

Hello,



I am positive the dealer didn`t do anything to the car. It was still in plastic when I picked it up. I was drying with a DFtowel. I rinsed the car very well before the first wash. I did the AIO like I read on here by the guy who did a layer and then did another ontop of the 1st without buffing and then did a 3rd on problem areas and then buffed. On the paint cleansing lotion by P21s, I follwed the instructions and did the same on the P21s.



Thanks,

Brad

[Steve @ Guru]

If it had plastic on it, then it`s a safe bet that the dealer didn`t touch it, so that`s one possibility gone.



Were I you, I`d wash it with some strong detergent and a 100% Cotton Chennile Wash Mitt (wash in straight lines), dry in straight lines, then break out the PC with some SMR.



Follow the SMR with the GEPC applied with PC, then hit it with AIO and P21S. Skip the SG; it`s not worth the hazing.

[Scott301]

The best way to describe the paint is a fog like look to it and scratches. Not really swirls but there a some and then scratches. I`ve got the PC and all the pads from CMA but like I said above, I haven`t used it yet. It is still in the box but I guess that will be my next step.



Brad

[Scott301]

SMR is a 3M product? What is GEPC?

[imported_BretFraz]

Originally posted by BradNC

SMR is a 3M product? What is GEPC?



SMR`s are made by many companies but the popular one`s are 3M and Meguiar`s. And the GEPC is that P21S polish you used: Gloss Enahncing Paint Cleanser.

[Mr. Clean]

Did you do anything in your procedure that may have removed some dealer applied glaze or filler? Perhaps as geekysteve implied the dealer had prepped the vehicle. It does seem odd that you felt you saw significant scratching whether using the sponge or mitt.



Please forgive my belated post. Somehow I got behind the curve and missed several posts including your post indicating you are positive the dealer had done nothing to the car.

[Scott301]

Duh!! Guess I should have read the bottle to see what GEPC was. Is there a particular SMR you have found to be idiot proof or one that works better than others?



Thanks,

Brad

[Scott301]

Mr. Clean,



I guess the Dawn wash could have removed any glaze the factory may have put on. However, I`m sure the dealer just parked it after it came off the truck. I jumped up and down about this before it came and they did just as I asked it appears.



Brad

[Brad B]

Ditch the natural sponge. Get a "quality" 100% cotton chenile mitt and use that. Also, running water, if available, is safer than the two bucket method if possible. Run the water through the mitt as you wash. This floods the surface and keeps debris away from the paint. I use one mitt for the top half of the car (above the belt line) and a second for below the beltline. Keep these mitts segregated permanently. This especially reduces the odds that an errant piece of debis gets into the upper body mitt. Paranoid? Yes I am!



The bucket method you used is the next best thing and should have worked fine.



You didn`t mention drying towels, (did you?) A lot of damage can be done here. I STRONGLY recommend you get some microfiber drying towels like the BIG BLUE towels. They are fantastic and will not scratch. With a black car you owe it to yourself.



You should use SMR and your PC (It`s very safe, go ahead and use it!) and take care of the problem now. At least do a panel so you can see the difference. Use AIO or SG and seal the paint before winter. It will help your sanity.

[bjwebster]

I Would Lose The Sponge. I Use Either 100% Cotton Or MF Wash Mitts. A SMR Should Rid You Of The Scratches.

I Experienced Some Nasty Klasse Haze When I Used It. After A Few Days And A Wash, It Cleared Up.

[imported_Aurora40]

I have two possible explanations for your problems. The hazing could be caused by the fact that you topped the SG with a carnauba right after buffing it off. You said you buffed it in the morning, and that same day you topped it with P21S. The only times I`ve ever had hazing of products was when I tried to put on too many coats in too little an amount of time. I`ve had it happen with carnaubas as well as polymers. If you ask me, unless you are topping AIO or Blackfire, it`s best to wait at least a day (I usually just wait until the next weekend for the next layer) between adding layers. So, putting a coat of SG on top of AIO would probably be fine, but topping SG the same day might cause some problems.



As for the scratches, is it possible you just didn`t see the scratches earlier because the car had plastic and dirt on it? Also, is it possible that the use of Dawn is what caused the scratches? Dawn isn`t a car wash, so it may not buffer the dirt as well as a car wash does. Food particles don`t tend to scratch dishes, so Dawn is probably more focused on breaking up food particles than on encapsulating them to prevent scratching. Also, is it possible that some of the glue that holds the plastic on the car was responsible for the scratching? I don`t have experience with that plastic stuff, but I assume something must hold it on. Could the glue have built up in the sponge or held a lot of grit together or something? This is just speculation, though. Do you have a good wash technique? Do you use more than one bucket, and wash top-down? Do you use a different sponge/bucket for the wheels? I don`t know... There must be something that caused it, and I`m sure you will figure it out and start having more detailing success. You can always leave the current hazy protection on the car through winter. I doubt the haze affects the durability of SG.



Hey, what were your thoughts on the DFTowel for drying? I am probably going to pick one up. Drying is one of my least-favorite things. I currently use the chamois-blot/MF-wipe method, but I`d prefer one non-scratching towel that can handle all the water. My current MF`s aren`t big enough to cut it. The DFTowel sounds more interesting than a waffle-weave, which would have been my choice if I hadn`t heard of the DFTowels.

[Viking]

Don`t worry BradNC your not alone. I have really come to enjoy detailing my auto, not only for the sense of accomplishment but for the entire experience, such as being out in the garage and having time to think and reflect. I have come to the conclusion that having an orbital buffer is the only way to rid your car of micro-scratches and swirl marks. Nothing is more depressing than spending the entire day detailing the car only to take it to the fuel station that evening and look at the roof under the halogen bulbs.....:(

[Steve @ Guru]

Originally posted by BradNC

The best way to describe the paint is a fog like look to it and scratches. Not really swirls but there a some and then scratches. I`ve got the PC and all the pads from CMA but like I said above, I haven`t used it yet. It is still in the box but I guess that will be my next step.



Brad



It sounds to me like the products weren`t worked in enough; I know we`re all grasping at straws for explanations, and we`re all fairly sure that the scratches were caused by the sea sponge, so we`ll ignore that problem and go about trying to correct it.



If you don`t work products in enough, you often end up with a foggy look or a slight haze/cloudiness. I wouldn`t be afraid of the PC; as long as you have good pads (like the ones from CMA) and are patient, you shouldn`t have any problems.



I hate to plug another board, but have you checked out my PC for beginners guide?



PC Guide (http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/detailing/forum.php?postid=1430487&page=1)