The final plan

[nate010753]

Ok here I go this is the final plan after much searching and lots of help from the forum I only have one well maybe 2 questions for my big detail:



1. Wash with Dawn

2. Clay

3.(Need a cleaner wax reccomendation here consider the following

I am going to be putting it on by hand, I want the car to look like glass when I am done, the car is black and the paint is 3 years old maybe been waxed 5 to 6 times total. So anything you can reccommend would be of great help. SMR, #9, DACP or a good cleaner wax #6 maybe)

4. wash off residue dawn again here

5. #7 glaze ( is there really a benefit here of using this)

6. BF Polish

7. BF Paint protectant



The following weekend wash and apply a layer of S100



Again thanks for all your suggestions they have really helped me.

[thevolvoguy]

Let me give you a list of what I would choose.



1) ok

2) ok

3) Re-wash after clay, the clay can leave a residue on the paint which can interfere with the bonding of some products, the best way to do this is wash the car completely, dont dry and clay using the soapy water as a lube, then re wash, one panel at a time, rinse and dry.

4) I would reccomend a few applications of 3M IHG, or Meg`s DACP, as the C/W would put a coat of protection which you do not need.

5) #7 is fine, but I really dont see much of a need for it, the BF polish will enhance the shine enough IMO.

6) BF APP



Also, what color is the car? #7 is a great product for blacks and reds, it really makes the paint glow. If you went with the #7, I would use the S100 in place of the BF.



Good Luck:wavey

[George M.]

the car is black. he said that in his post above. when in part 3

[shaf]

1)ok

2)ok

3)Use a product appropriate to how much fixing it needs: swirl remover or DACP/fine cut cleaner. If you don`t know, start off mild.

4)skip this

5)skip this too

6)ok

7)ok



Don`t worry so much - now get out there and start detailing for heaven`s sake! :p



Good luck too!

[imported_Aurora40]

Dengsxr, I am the one that suggested a cleaner/wax. But that was only because you mentioned you needed a product right away from the store, and you implied that at some later date you would get Blackfire. So to me, a cleaner/wax and a clay job were something you could pick up at the store to use the next day. Once you clay, you wouldn`t have to do it again (for a long time, anyway). Then the Cleaner/Wax would be mildly aggressive against oxidation. 3 years of neglect may be minor or major depending on where you live, if it`s garaged, etc. So a cleaner/wax would give you an idea of how strong a cleaner you really need. If it does almost nothing, you need a stronger product like DACP probably. If it helps a fair amount but you think it could be better, maybe something like Swirl-Free Polish (a step milder from DACP) would work. If the cleaner/wax makes the finish look beautiful, then you probably don`t need any more cleaning.



The problem with the cleaner/wax is that it leaves a carnauba wax on the car. This is fine if you were going to get Blackfire in a few weeks or something. The carnauba would protect your car for a few weeks to maybe a month. Then when you are ready for the Blackfire, just strip it (it`ll be weak/gone already), clean the paint (now that you have a better idea of what sort of cleaning it needs, or don`t bother to clean if the cleaner/wax kicked butt), put some glaze on if you want, and apply your Blackfire. If you are going to just wait until you are ready for Blackfire, the cleaner/wax doesn`t make much sense. You want the cleaning ability of it, or maybe something stronger, but you definitely don`t want the fresh coat of carnauba it leaves. Even though they aren`t great protectants, the day you apply it the carnauba will be pretty strong. Stripping it may require using a paint cleaner, which just duplicates any cleaning you used the cleaner/wax for, making the cleaner/wax a total waste of time.



I`m sorry if that wasn`t more clear. And I do think the cleaner/wax is an ok idea if you haven`t gotten together all the stuff you need yet, or if you want to try out your application technique while getting a better feel for how much cleaning your paint will require (before buying a cleaner). Also, it sounded like you were just starting out. Some clay (which you`d need anyway) and a $6 cleaner/wax is cheap education about how to clean paint. Cleaner/waxes are reasonably effective cleaners, leave a decent gloss, and acceptable (for what it is) protection. Plus, they are usually fairly forgiving to use while you perfect your technique. But it won`t be an effective part of a total regimen like you outlined above. I`m not saying you shouldn`t go with Blackfire, or try a more complicated routine. Go for it. I never would have suggested a cleaner/wax except you stated you needed something readily available to use the next day, you would eventually put on Blackfire (which means repeating a lot of the glaze/polish process), and you were unsure about how much cleaning you`d require. Since that isn`t your scenario anymore, you can ignore it if you`d like. ;) :) :wavey





EDIT: Just to be completely clear, here was my thinking. You wanted to go to the store and buy a bunch of stuff to use the next day, because you were free that day. Then later you would use Blackfire after you got it and had free time. So the way I saw it, your schedule would be:



Detailing #1:



Clay

Cleaner (may need to try a few)

Polish/Glaze

Some sort of protectant



Detailing #2 (some days/weeks later):

Strip off previous protectant

Polish/Glaze possible (like #7)

Polish/Glaze like BF GEP

BF Protectant (possibly repeat this)

So there is a fair amount of repeating steps, plus you may have to buy two or more cleaners/polishes (Like DACP and also SFP/#9) to ensure you can get the finish cleaned properly.



What I thought would be a good alternative was to save some money on products you might not use again by just buying one cheapy you may not use again (the C/W). So it would go like this:



Detailing #1:

Clay

Cleaner/Wax which will give you an idea of how strong a cleaner you need

Detailing #2 (some days/weeks later):

Cleaner OR strip wax if cleaner isn`t needed

Polish/Glaze possible (like #7)

Polish/Glaze like BF GEP

BF Protectant (possibly repeat this)

There is less repeating, and you may not have to buy a product like DACP ($20) if you don`t need it, and you also wouldn`t have to buy some protectant to use after the first detailing before you get your Blackfire. Oh, you`d also have to wash the car before each of these steps, but you probably knew that.

[shaf]

Daaaaaaamn Aurora.... :shocked

[nate010753]

wow thanks Aurora40 that was a mouthful there. You are correct that was my plan a few days ago however we have a very wet weekend and things didn`t turn out in my favor. But since then I now have the BF PP and the polish. So I revised the plan a bit. I kind of wanted to bang it out in an afternoon/evening as I live in NY and it is starting to get cold out. So here is the plan that I came up with



1. Wash with Dawn

2. Clay

3 I am thinking SMR should do the trick the car is garaged

4. wash off residue dawn again here

5. #7 glaze ( is there really a benefit here of using this)

6. BF Polish

7. BF Paint protectant



The following weekend wash and apply a layer of S100





How do you think that looks in terms of not repeating stuff.

Hmm maybe I`ll practice this on my girlfriends car first! hehehe



thanks for your help!!

[imported_Aurora40]

I wouldn`t bother with the 2nd wash. The only "residue" #9 will leave are glaze oils. Since you are putting #7 on, there is no reason to remove the #9 oils. You`d only do that for something like Zaino which apparently doesn`t work well over those oils (but you wouldn`t use #7 or other glazes either. #9 would purely be for it`s swirl removal).



Also, if you are using #9 and BF GEP, it`s sort of up to you about #7. I mean, that`s already two products with glaze qualities. It may help some, though. Maybe try it on a spot to see how it looks and if it`s worth the extra effort. You can think of it like this: #7 is a glaze that just puts oils (maybe oils is the wrong word, I don`t know. But I`m using it) and such down on the paint to add depth and restore gloss. #9 has some of those same glaze oils, but adds to it some abrasives that will remove swirling and provide light cleaning of the paint (hence it would be considered a polish, not a glaze). But it still leaves behind those oils and such for depth and gloss (probably not as much as #7, though). So there would be no reason to wash them off unless your protectant can`t work over them. Products like Zaino and Klasse SG won`t bond right over a glaze, so if you used #9 to remove swirls, you`d then have to remove the oils it leaves (the product is doing more than you want it to). Something like #7 would be a total waste of time in that case because all it would do is lay down some oils, then you`d expend effort to remove all the oils in order to use Z or K. Blackfire will bond just fine over these oils, which is kind of nice. So there isn`t any reason to wash after the #9, unless for some reason you are freaky about oils (in which case you sure as heck wouldn`t want to use #7). I don`t know a whole lot about BF GEP, but it too has some glaze oils in it. So if you use #9 and GEP, that`s probably pretty good. #7 is up to you (try it on a part and see). I think GEP may have some very light cleaners in it too (it`s description calls it a non-abrasive cleaner/polish). Now, this brings up the question of whether GEP will "clean" off those oils you just put down. It may very well, or maybe it just cleans off some or most of it, but leaves enough behind that you can tell the difference between #7/GEP and just GEP. I dont` really know. You`re going to use #9 even if the oils are stripped (since it will remove/reduce swirls and clean the paint) so you might try some #7 on part of a panel, and then GEP on two parts. See if the #9/GEP looks any different than the #9/#7/GEP. Or try #9/GEP/#7 (so the GEP won`t remove the #7). CMA suggests using #3 (basically a machine version of #7) before GEP for extra shine, so perhaps the GEP cleaners are really light and don`t remove the gloss (and I believe MrDetailer has used glazes before GEP with good results). Try whatever you feel like. I think you can`t be too bad off with just #9 and GEP. But decide what look you want and how much effort you want to expend.



By the way, what`s the reasoning for using Dawn? You said you rarely wax the car, so I doubt there is any wax on it. Plus, #9 will make short work of any wax that is there. I`d just use car wash, but then I also don`t like the idea of Dawn on the paint (or of wiping dirt around with Dawn as the buffer).



If you haven`t bought #9 yet, you might consider Swirl-Free Polish. It`s great stuff too, and you get more per dollar than #9. It`s like $3 more than #9, but you get twice as much. If you already have #9, don`t worry about it.

[imp_D Tailor]

:scared My head hurts now... Ouch..



(Great info, thanks!)

[nate010753]

Ok that is the plan than. Thanks for you help I will post pics before and after when the job is done! thanks for all the comments!

[mrdetailer]

First I agree that using a normal Carwash soap is better than Dawn. If it hasn`t been waxed in 3 years, it won`t be a problem.



If there aren`t any major swirls SMR is not a bad choice. Neither is Meguiars #9. If oxidized, use DACP.



Don`t use a cleaner/wax under your current schema. BF will not bond to a carnauba at all.



However, I respectfully disagree with skipping the #7.



Check out this site.



http://www.properautocare.com/refshinkit.html



They use Machine Glaze as their suggested one for the best look, I don`t see how #7 is that much different.



I was surprized at how much nicer the Glaze under the Blackfire looked when I tried it.



BF GEP definitely has cleaners in it. A fair amount of color came up on my conventional painted car. It would clean up excess oils IMO.



BF Paint Protectant is Amazing and very easy to use if applied thinly.

[imported_Aurora40]

Originally posted by mrdetailer

However, I respectfully disagree with skipping the #7.

...

They use Machine Glaze as their suggested one for the best look, I don`t see how #7 is that much different.



I hear you about #7 being similar to #3. But I think #9 is also somewhat similar in the glaze it leaves. It will remove swirls while #3/#7 won`t, but #9 does leave oils just like them. The CMA reccomendation doesn`t use #9. But deng is using it. So he`d basically be substituting #9 for #3. And I did note the CMA recommendation and said he ought to try #7 on a panel to see how it looks.




Originally posted by mrdetailer

BF GEP definitely has cleaners in it. A fair amount of color came up on my conventional painted car. It would clean up excess oils IMO.



Also, you said that GEP definitely does clean the oils. So do you use #7 (or #3/#5/Hand Polish/some other glaze) and then just put BF protectant on it? Or do you use GEP after #7? Or #7 after GEP? You`ve gotten me a bit confused about what it was you did that gave you such good results. I thought you`d #7`d and then GEP`d, but now that doesn`t sound like what you are saying, and it sounds like you are saying that won`t work well because GEP will clean off the #7. Thanks!

[imported_Aurora40]

Originally posted by Pascal

:scared My head hurts now... Ouch..





Why does everyone say that about my posts? :nixweiss :rolleyes:

[shaf]

Originally posted by Aurora40

Why does everyone say that about my posts? :nixweiss :rolleyes: 5 year old-like attention span? :D

[nate010753]

When you say a swirl free polish are you talking about 3M SMR? Or is there another one?