View Full Version : Disappointed... tried everything and still got swirls on my new jet black car...
Vipertwin
11-04-2002, 10:09 AM
In preparation for the arrival of my new jet black BMW I spent countless hours reading this and other forums learning just how to best car for my new baby.
I`ve got a healthy supply of nice MF cloths, a nice chenille wash mit (from CMA), I use the two bucket method to wash, plenty of water, I`m careful to use the right strokes on the car (rubbing linearly instead of circularly)...
In short, I believe I`m familiar with everything necessary in order to avoid swirling my finish. However, my paint still has plenty of fine scratches that can be seen when lighting the car up with a spotlight.
The scratches are difficult to see in the daytime sun, but at night, when I`m in my garage and turn on a spotlight, I can see scratching everywhere.
What`s more, The scratching seems largely to be in the directions that I`ve been moving over the car... "as the wind flows"... which leads me to believe that it was indeed I who scratched the car up.
To the best of my knowledge, I`m the only one who cleaned the car. I specifically requested that the dealer didn`t clean it, and I believe that request was fulfilled.
So, despite my best efforts, I believe I still ended up scratching my car up a good bit. I chose to use Zaino as my surface protectant (due to longevity) and I`ll admit that Z5 *might* have diminished the marring *a bit*... but I`m still disappointed. :(
Does anyone have any advice on what I did wrong, or how I can make things better?
It seems I`m suddenly in the "how do i get rid of swirls" category when before I was in the "how to avoid swirls" class... :(
stuart hicks
11-04-2002, 10:30 AM
Zaino makes great products. But the weak link in the Zaino chain is the swirl removing properties of Z5. It is not endorsed by Sal but I have found success with using #7 show car polish followed by Z2. The #7 really hides light marring and swirls and The Z2 in every case i`ve seen will bond over it.
imported_Custom Detail
11-04-2002, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by stuart hicks
Zaino makes great products. But the weak link in the Zaino chain is the swirl removing properties of Z5. It is not endorsed by Sal but I have found success with using #7 show car polish followed by Z2. The #7 really hides light marring and swirls and The Z2 in every case i`ve seen will bond over it.
What is #7 ?
stuart hicks
11-04-2002, 12:49 PM
Im sorry the product is made by mequires it`s number is 7. Its caled #7 show car polish. Sold at Autozone, Advance auto parts etc. Very popular product here on Autopia. Good luck!
Glossy McGlosserton
11-04-2002, 02:42 PM
Won`t the oils that fill swirls in #7 impede the "cross linking" of the Z`s polymers?:nixweiss I`m pretty sure that a Dawn wash is recommended prior to Zaino after using #7, which is a glaze that has only a tiny bit of abrasive quality and is high on oils.
I`d love to have the increased depth and swirl hiding of #7 prior to Z5 w/ZFX on my dark green car. But I`m scared to try it.
Have you tried something to remove the swirls/scratches like a swirl remover? Either 3M`s swirl remover or Meguiar`s #9. It may take a couple passes by hand, but if you work it really well into the paint (try searching for some techniques) it may take them out or at least make a difference.
Once you are happy with the look of the paint, apply Zaino. That`s the general guideline - that it`s better not to rely on the wax/sealant as a crutch to cover up problems. It`s not always possible to 100% do this, but it`s just a guideline.
Just curious, what method are you using to QD your car? I personally disagree with DavidB`s method of QDing wiping with wet MFs, followed by QD spray. Sounds dangerous. What I do is use a Cali. Duster (CCD) and then spray QD and wipe it off with MF.
If you haven`t already, download the Autopia eBook. There should be some useful help in there for your swirls. The book is a great investment, and also helps support the community. :)
stuart hicks
11-04-2002, 06:08 PM
A few months back I tried using #7 then applying Z2 just for the hell of it. Well when the black lexus I tried it on retuned 6 weeks later, I washed it again and the the car beaded just like it did on day one. Since then I have tried this combo several times with great success. The #7 fills or polishes out light marring and the Z2 protects for months. I am aware of the warnings that Zaino will not bond over such a product but it has worked for me over and over again.
imported_Custom Detail
11-04-2002, 09:47 PM
Has anyone tryed 3M Imperial Hand Glaze first then a coat of Z2.
Im wondering if that would be a good combination. Or even if it would work.
Glossy McGlosserton
11-05-2002, 03:11 PM
Wow, Stuart! I`m shocked that you had good results with Z2 over #7! Does it give you all the stuff that Blackfire I promised: carnuaba depth and glow with polymer durability and reflectiveness? I`ve got #7 and Z5 on the shelf....and it might be warm enough this weekend.
Originally posted by stuart hicks
A few months back I tried using #7 then applying Z2 just for the hell of it. Well when the black lexus I tried it on retuned 6 weeks later, I washed it again and the the car beaded just like it did on day one. Since then I have tried this combo several times with great success. The #7 fills or polishes out light marring and the Z2 protects for months. I am aware of the warnings that Zaino will not bond over such a product but it has worked for me over and over again. This is interesting.... So you do not see the return of these swirls or marring (beyond usual wear and tear of course) over the months? Have you tried stripping off the Z after a while to see if the swirls are still being successfully hidden?
Sorry, I`m just a natural skeptic on these sort of things and am wondering if the Z really does seal in the glaze (which I suppose is really possible) and how long the Z lasts applied this way.
Thanks :wavey
Michael H
11-05-2002, 07:29 PM
I have noticed that the Zaino layer can be marked and swirled, as distinct from actual swirls in the clear coat. I have noticed this on several occasions.
stuart hicks
11-05-2002, 09:52 PM
When the Z2 is applied over the #7 it seems to lock in the #7`s ability to cover up swirls and deepen dark paint. On a few panels I just used Z2 and the paint was not as dark and the swirls not as hidden. Weeks later you can still see the panels that had the #7 on them were darker with less marring.
I have not tried Blackfire yet but want to soon.
To me, nothing looks as good on black or red as #7 and nothing last on any color as long as Z2. I just tried the combination and so far it works great.
Sure, it would be better to use a rotory with the #7 then use the Z2 by hand, but if your not familiar with rotory usage I would not try it. A Porter Cable ( which I don`t own and have never tried )may help to not only cover up swirls and marring but also polish them out without the risk of using a rotory buffer.
Again, this combo is not endorsed by Sal at all. I`m just saying it is working for me.
evor1
11-05-2002, 10:25 PM
If my car is a dry weather weekend only car, would I get better results with #7 and nothing else vs. Z5?
I have been using Z5, and it looks really good, however, I see some surface marring / scratches.
Would just using a glaze and then a QD be better than Z5 and Z6?
My thought is that a glaze will fill scratches better,and since I basically never wash the car (cali duster/QD), it`s lack of durability is a non-issue.
What do you all think??
jcattarulla
11-05-2002, 10:54 PM
Friend,
Swirls happen. They are like Michael Jordan, "You can`t stop him, you can only hope to contain him!"
That said, relax, your paint is NOT ruined, and it CAN look great again.
The Meguire`s #7 is good, but always use the LEAST abrasive necessary.
Have you considered the Zymol (this board may shoot me- it`s prcey stuff, but, if you have a Bimmer, money is not everything) system? Clear (shampoo), HD-Cleanse (cleans paint, removes swirls), the a wax (Carbon or Creame, depending on color paint). This is just one solution, which happened to work for me. In my business, there are some who go straight for the hard stuff- I like to use the LEAST abrasive stuff possible.
However, you should know that there are steps to be taken, and hours spent. POLISH removes swirls. And my advice to you would be to AVOID ALL MACHINES- your hand is the safest.
It will be ok. PLEASE let me kno what you do, and how it works. I am eager to hear.
Cheers,
JC
stuart hicks
11-06-2002, 09:38 AM
The #7 should be followed with something with more durability. You can use any good carnuba Like #26 or my favorite Mothers Carnuba W/ no cleaners in the red tin. These products are all sold at autozone and advance auto parts. The reason i wouldn`t suggest just a glaze is that you want to actually polish out some of the marring not just cover it up. The #7 is a polish with some glazing abilities. That means that it can actually removes light scratches and what it doesnt remove it fills or hides. These filling abilities are short lived and need to be extended by using a quality Carnuba or polymer over top of the #7.