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View Full Version : Dual review: BF and L&S



Kleanride
10-27-2002, 08:13 PM
Alrighty, today warmed up to about 40 degrees and it actually didn`t rain or snow, so I got to get out and get the cars winterized AND review the new BlackFire and a bottle of 501 from L&S Industries.



Test subject: 2001 Honda Civic, Midnight Blue (or whatever its called). The thing was filthy, so I had my work cut out for me.

First, I gave `er a good pressure wash, followed up with a full wash using Platinum Shampoo and a terry cloth sponge.

Next (although I should have clayed...) I applied some Meg. Cleaner Wax and let it haze for a couple minutes. I removed it with a Wizards Hand Pad set (for those of you that don`t know what that is, Wizards has a blue and white sponge set, white for applying and blue for removal). I used the blue pad.

Now the fun began. I divided the car in half down the middle...one half 501 and the other BF. I applied the BF with the micro fiber sponge that Terry from CMA provided...and I must say, the stuff smells awesome and it went on SOOOOO smooth and even! I was TRULY impressed by how well this stuff went on! WOW!

Although I would have liked to only do a panel at a time, the sun was working against me and daylight was getting scarse.

Then on the other half of the car I applied the 501 with a Meg. little yellow circle applicator. This product didn`t go on smooth and it smelled like, well, I dunno but I think I caught a nice buzz!

So after I was done on that side I waited for a couple minutes before I started to remove the BF. Although I would have liked to remove it with a terry cloth and gone back over it with a MF, I had to skip the terry and go str8 to the MF.

This was not a easy product to remove (doing it this method); it streaked and smeared like no ones business. I used 2 different MF towels trying to get it off of 1/2 of the car. There are still some smears and streaks after I was `done`, but I had to keep the show on the road and remove the 501.

So now I have a new MF towel and I start removing the 501. Now it is the EXACT OPPOSITE! The 501 was a complete breeze to remove! I just basically swept the MF over the panels and the stuff came off and left a UNBELIEVABLE shine! I was very sceptical of this product after how hard it was to apply...but after removing it, WOW!

Now I also decided to apply the 501 to the windshield, but I will have to report back after a good rain or snow or something.



I will give the BF another go, but overall I was disappointed. I did have a lot of factors working against me tho, so I wouldn`t call this a very fair test.



The 501 was very impressive! I think I might have a new favorite sealant. I would compare this product with Klasse, except for the applying part. Klasse is must easier to apply.



Now that the car is fully done up, it does shine like mad, but now the real test begans...MN winter. I will report back after a few weeks with how both are holding up.



Edge: 501 overall





this is where I heard about 501, btw.... :



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1871120626



it was $14 shipped, so I figured no big deal. Glad I gave `er a go!







:bounce

imported_memnuts
10-28-2002, 11:38 AM
Good review but I see a major problem in the prep for the BF. Blackfire should not be applied over a carnuaba. Like Zaino it will not bond to a carnauba`d surface. Doesn`t Meg Cleaner wax contain carnuaba?

I found the same characteristics with the new BF. It is very temperature and humidity sensitive. I think humidity is the bigger factor. Dale was it humid when you applied the BF? How long did you allow it to cure (haze)? Was there haze formation? Was the applied coat of BF very, very thin? All these factors ( from my experience) greatly effect the buffing of the new version of Blackfire. Like Zaino buffing can be a PITA if applied too thick, it`s too humid, and it`s too cold. Nevertheless, applying over a carnuaba was probably the leading cause of your buffing problems and will definitely effect its durability (lack of surface bonding).

Overall I love the results but one must take in account the surface prep and environmental conditions when using the BF2. No big deal, just somethings to consider prior to applying.:xyxthumbs :wavey

Kleanride
10-28-2002, 12:13 PM
Doesn`t Meg Cleaner wax contain carnuaba?



uff, good point! I didn`t even think of that! Looks like a new test is in order.

(I was, um, enjoying some Mikes Hard Lemonades while detailing.....hmm....!)



Was it humid? no, not at all.



I let it haze for probably around 1/2 hour. <---what do you recommend?

imported_memnuts
10-28-2002, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by Dale DeSteno

uff, good point! I didn`t even think of that! Looks like a new test is in order.

(I was, um, enjoying some Mikes Hard Lemonades while detailing.....hmm....!)



Was it humid? no, not at all.



I let it haze for probably around 1/2 hour. <---what do you



recommend?



Mikes Hard Lemonades LOL. :xyxthumbs



If it was not humid 30 - 45 minutes should have been enough. 40 degrees is really low, so more time may have been needed. I applied BF2 this weekend at ~60*( low humidity) and it took about 40 minutes to haze completely. I could have buffed at 15 minutes but that would have required slightly more buffing effort. Last winter when I was applying Zaino at temperatures less than 50* it took as long as 2 hours for it to haze. This may also be the case for the new Blackfire.

I also initially buff with a 100% cotton towel and final buff with a MF.:wavey

mrdetailer
10-29-2002, 01:00 AM
When I got an old Blackfire Kit a couple of months ago they had a question-answer section in the application instructions. They indicated that once a carnauba was put on, Blackfire could not be applied on top. Now the reverse is true, you can put a carnauba on top of Blackfire. Here`s what I`ve seen by CMA on how Blackfire should be correctly applied, for the Ultimate Look.



1. Use a wax remover to clean off the old wax.



2. Use a claybar to remove embedded pollultants. They of course recommend Pinnacle clay bar, but Mothers, or Clay Magic are excellent.



3. Use a glaze as an undercoat. CMA recommends Meguiar`s Machine Glaze. But I used S100 Gloss Enhancing Polish on a new dark green Hyundai last weekend with fantastic results.



4. Top the glaze with either Blackfire Gloss Enhancing Polish, or Klasse All In One. I couldn`t believe the difference when I put the Blackfire Gloss Enhancing Polish over the S100 polish. The reflection got amazingly clear. Definitely better than just using the Blackfire Gloss Enhancing Polish alone like I did on 2 other cars.



5. Use Blackfire Paint Protectant applied by a foam polishing pad orbital. It works the protectant in better.



6. Top with an excellent Carnauba as an optional step. They recommend their own Pinnacle of course, but I`ve found P21S/S100 to be an excellent topper over Blackfire.



I believe that if it`s used right you will find a beautiful and durable shine.

Kleanride
10-31-2002, 12:48 PM
Thanks MrDetailer, I know you are right. I had to many factors working against me that day....daylight, temp, my own stupidity (with the cleaner wax)......



On the other hand, the L&S 501 did pretty much rule......I didn`t make any mistakes using that, that I know of at least! No carnuaba topper, but perhaps this weekend.......!





I am going to have to give it a go again whenever it gets warm around here, or at least tolerable!

dr427
01-27-2003, 10:22 PM
Dale,



How is the L&S holding up? Worthy product?

Kleanride
01-27-2003, 10:52 PM
Um, well, good, I believe. I am kinda scared to look at or touch my car right now. We just got a couple inches of snow last night and today it melted and now my car is a rolling pile of snow/ice/salt/sand.

HOWEVER, the last time it was washed, with the touchless wash at the gas station, it was looking good...I did notice some swirls showing thru..but nothing too bad.



I feel this is a worthy product, I have full intent on using it this spring for `spring cleanup`



:up

SergC
01-27-2003, 11:49 PM
Dale,



would You post the link to 501 ?





Serg

Kleanride
01-28-2003, 07:10 AM
http://www.mksales.com/ls.html



I can`t find their website, but I found this...501`s website wasn`t too involved any, this should answer any questions you might have...

dr427
01-28-2003, 08:54 AM
They have some back on ebay again as well:



eBay L&S 501 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6755&item=2401061130&rd=1)



They should offer more than 1 at a time if they are the direct manufacture!:confused:

imported_COEX-PILOT
01-30-2003, 09:28 PM
I`ve been using BF for a few weeks now. I`m in the process of a major scratch/swirl removal project on my Vette so each time I try something new I end up doing a BF treatment at the end.



My experiece is that BF Polish is best applied with a white pad and the PC (set at 3). Depending on what I did before, sometimes the polish is absorbed very quickly, sometime slowly. The stuff sets up fairly fast and I wipe it off with a MF cloth.



The BF Paint Protection should not be applied with the PC. That`s my experience. You want and very thin coat of this stuff and using a MF applicator is about perfect. This suff needs to dry and then is come off fairly easily!



Here is a shot of the Vette and although it looks good, it`s far from perfect. But I`m getting there.

mrdetailer
01-31-2003, 03:46 PM
Blackfire has a nice shine.

imported_Tony
01-31-2003, 04:20 PM
mrdetailer: I noticed your comment that applying BF polish over S100 polish enhances the shine. What do you think is going on there. I mean normally one polish would remove the other.

mrdetailer
01-31-2003, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by rightlane

mrdetailer: I noticed your comment that applying BF polish over S100 polish enhances the shine. What do you think is going on there. I mean normally one polish would remove the other.



Terry at CMA recommended a variation of this for the Ultimate shine. I tried it and surprizingly the shine was even deeper. Yes I agree with you that one could remove the other, but in this case somehow they don`t completely remove each other and actually compliment each other.