View Full Version : I`m very confused!! SMR question (searched)
I searched this topic on 3 different websites, but I could never find the exact answer I was looking for. I want to know if 3M SMR is the best thing for swirls that I can use by hand. I do not own a PC and can`t really afford one right now so I need to do the buffing by hand. When I apply the SMR or whatever stuff is best, do I apply it in a circular motion or apply it like wax from front to back. Also I am going to use a foam sponge applicator that I got from CMA. Good or bad? And finally, when I am done with the SMR, can I go to Klasse AIO then SG, or should I wash the car again first, or just go straight to SG?? I`m not sure if the SMR has fillers in it or not but I want something that is going to get rid of the swirls and not just hide them so is SMR still the best to use?? Thanks so much cuz I know this topic has been beaten to death!!:)
Jngrbrdman
10-20-2002, 10:46 PM
Good luck with the SMR by hand. To get swirls out you really are going to need to use a machine. Especially if you`ve never done something like this before. SMR isn`t easy on easy off like wax. To remove the swirls you are going to have to cut the clear coat down. Even with a PC it sometimes takes more than one pass over the car with SMR.
SMR should take care of the cleaning of your paint. Like I said, it cuts down the clear. Not much room for dirt if you`ve taken the top layer off. You shouldn`t need AIO and can go right for the SG.
It is going to be very difficult to remove the swirls by hand. Just be prepared for a lot of effort. On a black car SMR is the best thing to use, but I don`t know if its the best thing to be used by hand. I think it was designed for maching use. I`m sure you`ll get more advice on it. Welcome to Autopia!
johnson
10-20-2002, 11:04 PM
It`s going to be hard, but possible. A good example is Scottwax.
It`s going to be hard, but possible. A good example is Scottwax.
I searched for Scottwax and came up with like 500 or so hits. Would you happen to know the name of the thread you are talking about or have the link by chance?? Thanks for the post!!:up
Good luck with the SMR by hand. To get swirls out you really are going to need to use a machine. Especially if you`ve never done something like this before. SMR isn`t easy on easy off like wax. To remove the swirls you are going to have to cut the clear coat down. Even with a PC it sometimes takes more than one pass over the car with SMR.
Ok I just found out my neighbor has a polisher but I don`t think it is a PC like everybody reccommends. Is this still ok?? What is the proper technique for going about this because he said he would gladly let me borrow it anytime I wanted. Also what kind of pads do I need?? Thanks for the info!!:D
BTW I still kinda want to do this by hand first cuz Im scared to put a machine to my paint:scared But I need to know do I do it in a circular motion or front to back just in case I go for it by hand?
imported_doug
10-21-2002, 01:26 AM
There are only 2 SMR`s that get much discussion here. One is 3M and one is Meguiar`s #9. I have used both, on a black car. In my experience the 3M is probably more abrasive - good for ultimately removing swirls - but also has fewer fillers and therefore is nearly impossible to use successfully by hand. Meguiars` is less aggressive with more fillers so it is much more forgiving. You`ll probably like what you see if you apply it - but you will probably not truly reduce the swirls much unless you use a machine.
The secret to these products is that they use "diminishing abrasives". As you work them, the abrasive particles get smaller and smaller, so that at first they have a cutting/leveling function, but then erode into a very fine polish. If you don`t work them long enough/hard enough - you end up with haze because the particles didn`t break down.
The common mistake is to stop too soon, see some hazing (much more likely with the 3M) and so apply MORE product and try again. The problem is that you didn`t let the abrasives break down enough with the first application. As it comes out of the bottle, it WILL leave some hazing on black. It will be invisible with the Meguiar`s because that product has some really great fillers. But once they wash away.... In either case, adding more liquid only adds more "full size" abrasive, which is sized to get rid of the scratches but will leave haze. It is like sanding with 400 sandpaper, which gets rid of scratches you put in with 200 grit, but leaves finer scratches in their place, which you then go after with 600, etc. (*The products we`re talking about here are finer than that, but the principle still applies. )
Jngrbrdman
10-21-2002, 01:59 AM
If you are going to be tackling this by hand then make sure you are using the right tools. Use a microfiber pad to apply it with. Some will say to go back and forth and some will say to go in circles. Most products even say to go in circles. I`ve applied #9 in circles before and had success. 3M SMR is really tough to use by hand. You could do it either way though.
Get some microfiber towels to buff it off. I`ve seen people put more swirls in their car by using the wrong towels to buff off product.
It depends on what kind of polisher your neighbor has. I`ve had to take out some pretty bad swirls and rub marks from people who got a cheap buffer at WalMart and threw on a pad and product and really did a number on their car. If you`ve never done something like this before then I don`t know that I`d suggest using a buffer you aren`t familiar with.
Like carguy said, you have to work with these products for awhile. Just to do an average sized hood by hand could take an hour or two. Prepare to really spend some time on your car if you are going to do it by hand. Even with a PC it can take 5 or 6 hours to do a car. #9 isn`t as good as 3M SMR but it is eaiser to work with by hand. It may take longer to do the car, but it will be a little eaiser to do. Either way, you are looking at a pretty tough task. Props for taking it on. :xyxthumbs
Ok I have 2 MF applicator pads (1 yosteve and 1 CMA (Viper)) and 3 foam ones from CMA. I see people use foam pads for PCs so shouldn`t I use the foam app. pad for applying the SMR or would the MF still be better?? Also I`ve heard that applying SMR in circles is proper, but I`ve always been told never to wipe in a circular motion for anything, and thus far I have not. Wouldn`t applying the SMR in circles just create more swirls?? I plan on tackling this task next weekend so I need to order stuff pretty soon and that is why I really appreciate these fast responses. Thank you all!!
One more thing: I have the Klasse twins just chillin in my room and want to use them. Can i use AIO, then SMR, then like 4 coats SG?? Or some other way around?? Thanks again!!
Use whichever kind of pad feels best and works best for you (I dunno, maybe the dry screeching from the foam will drive you nuts too :p). The PC pads are just what`s available and they work - don`t read too much into the kind of material. The foam is of different grades anyway.
I do SMR in lines right now (because of advice like you`ve heard), but if you keep things clean and control what you`re doing right, circles should work too, like Jngrbrdman said. Work the SMR long and hard, easing up pressure as it gets dry. If it`s drying out sooner than you`d like (due to warm temps or something), give it a tiny squirt of QD to wet it a bit (another Carguy tip btw :D). Stop when there`s almost no residue left to move around and things are getting powdery. Don`t be discouraged if you don`t get it out all in one easy shot - SMR by hand is pretty mild, but it all depends on how bad the swirls are. Oh yeah, don`t squirt too much SMR either.
Do SMR first (it`s a polishing step), then use AIO, and then SG. If I had AIO I`d always use it prior to SG since it doesn`t take that long and it just feels like insurance I`m doing it properly.
laynlow
10-21-2002, 01:12 PM
If memory serves Scottwax likes to use Meguiars DACP followed by Meguiars Swirl Free Poilsh by hand. He has enjoyed great success with these products.
eclemens
10-22-2002, 07:16 AM
I thought the 3M SMR required the speed/heat of a polisher to break down the fillers in it. Have you tried 3M Imperial Hand Glaze? Not a lot of cutting action, but made specifically for hand application.
VV
I`ve heard it is very very difficult to apply by hand but can be done and I`m willing to go thru the PITA procedure. Anyway, I looked at the threads from Scottwax and now I want to do his method of DACP followed by swirl free polish, and then do AIO and SG. What I`m wondering is will I harm my paint by using all those polishes at the same time (particularly the quite abrasive DACP) or am I ok? I just want to do something that will actually reduce the swirls and not just fill them so I figured why not use something abrasive. The one thing holding me back though is that I have an `03 so the paint is new and has never been waxed, but came with some minor swirles from the dealer. I don`t want to harm my paint before I get to enjoy it!! Please someone let me know if this is ok!! Scottwax if you are out there can you give me some tips to going about this using your method?? Thanks everyone! Peace:)
BTW: My car has AutoMate. Is this bad to use (ie create swirls) and do I need to dawn my car before polishing to strip the protectant stuff??
Scottwax
10-22-2002, 12:29 PM
Golfus-you should be fine with DACP, provided you work it until it looks nearly clear and dry so you completely break down the abrasives. I start off in a circular pattern, then switch to a back and forth (lengthwise across the car) as the DACP begins to dry and continue until it looks like it is almost buffed off. I usually go over the swirls twice with DACP, then once over with Swirl Free with a terry cloth towel to apply it, then once more with a foam hand pad.
Bear in mind this will work with light to moderate swirls, but with severe swirls, you will probably need a machine. This is an example of swirls I removed by hand from a black Suburban-the hood is aftermarket and was repainted after the first paint job had problems.
http://www.scottwax.com/miscitems.htm
I will also mention it is very strenuous to remove swirls and oxidation by hand. The right products go a long way towards successful removal, but physical strength is a must. The first six months of doing this professionally left my shoulders, elbows and forearms sore nearly every day. After 9 years though, it isn`t a problem. You may want to use a random orbital buffer if you don`t want to use a PC or high speed rotary.
imported_Intermezzo
10-22-2002, 01:45 PM
Scottwax,
Wow, those are really good B4 & After pics. So basically you do two apps of DACP, 2 of SFP & then the wax. How long does that normally take you on a mid-sized sedan?
I normally do 2-3 apps of FI-2 followed by a paint cleanser to clear the haze. This normally takes me all day long & I`m pretty beat by the end of the day. You must have Ronnie Coleman-like delts!!
Using a terry cloth first followed by a foam app for the second pass sounds like a great idea.
Scottwax
10-22-2002, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by Intermezzo
Scottwax,
Wow, those are really good B4 & After pics. So basically you do two apps of DACP, 2 of SFP & then the wax. How long does that normally take you on a mid-sized sedan?
If an entire car was swirled like that hood (usually it`s the top that is real bad in most cases), it would take me about 3-4 hours, including waxing. I think I spent about 25-30 minutes on that hood. Just been doing it a long time, I guess.
I normally do 2-3 apps of FI-2 followed by a paint cleanser to clear the haze. This normally takes me all day long & I`m pretty beat by the end of the day. You must have Ronnie Coleman-like delts!!
Okay, don`t laugh...I know I need to lose a few pounds (which is the purpose of the pic on another site, I am in their fitness contest to see who can get in the best shape by January 10th. This is obviously a before pic.). Hope this doesn`t make anyone sick or anything like that! I assue you, I am working on my gut. Ran a 5k (3.1 miles) yesterday in 26 minutes. I figure I can drop at least 20 pounds by the end of the contest.
http://www.scottwax.com/october/Oct_fitness_muscular.jpg
BTW, Ronnie Coleman is from Arlington...he was a cop here and I see him walking at the park every once in a while.
Using a terry cloth first followed by a foam app for the second pass sounds like a great idea.
You can get more even pressure with a terry cloth towel (plus fold it again for each section) and more cutting power than with foam hand pads.
imported_Intermezzo
10-22-2002, 04:22 PM
OK....lady Autopians... please try to control yourselves... :D