imported_Aurora40
08-07-2002, 08:58 AM
I will attempt to tell my story in a logical way that hopefully will be informative and enjoyable and will help you to shed some light on what I`ve been experiencing.
In maintaining my car, I first began using Gold Class liquid wax when my car was brand-new from the factory. I eventually purchased Medallion Cleaner, #7, and MPPP to replace the GC. I used the Cleaner to remove some small swirls and followed with #7/MPPP. This is when I first became suspicious that MPPP was removing #7 (as I outlined in another thread, so I won`t go into detail). As I became more Autopian, I changed my drying procedure to reduce swirls (blot with chamois followed by wipe with MF). I also began to realize that I probably used way too much #7 back when I applied it, and I wanted to top with #26 for more depth. I decided it was time to start from scratch using my new knowledge. I had probably built up about 3-4 applications of MPPP (don`t know if it really layered), with the most recent about 1-2 weeks before I tried to strip it.
So, I was all set. I had just purchased some Dawn blue (not the concentrated, just the regular) soap to use to strip the car. Also, my #26 would be arriving later that day just in time to top my MPPP. So, I washed with Dawn, and I was amazed by how the water still beaded a bit and ran off so easily (MPPP was never an amazing beader, and after the Dawn wash, the beading was still about the same as before). So, I felt the surface with a plastic bag (sandwich bag), and clayed the hood because it felt bumpy with the bag on my hand. It still felt bumpy with the bag, and felt smooth-as-glass without the bag on my hand (just as it did before I clayed). So, I figured the car didn`t need to be clayed because it all felt smooth-as-glass. I also figured I didn`t understand the plastic bag trick... I dried the car off and then proceded to apply #7. The #7 seemed to help the depth and hide the few light swirls, and of course, the MPPP made it look like it did before the #7. I applied two coats of MPPP and then later in the day I applied one coat of #26. The next day, I Quik Detailed and then applied another coat of #26.
I was quite pleased with the way #26 brought out more depth, but I began to realize I could do better with #7 followed by #26 without the MPPP. I also began to notice that in direct sunlight, there is a hazy look to the paint. I first really noticed it on the hood and thought maybe the engine heat did it. It almost looks like I didn`t remove the #7 or something. However, I don`t think that`s the case as it is everywhere, and I was pretty thorough in buffing it off. I began to wonder if maybe the original MPPP wasn`t removed with the Dawn wash, and that putting #7 on top of the existing MPPP caused the haze. The new MPPP should have removed the new #7, but maybe it leaves a little of it.
About two days after I washed the car (and was amazed by the #26 beading), as I noticed the hazing more and more, and I noticed it all over the car, not just on the hood, I decided I just had to try to see what was causing it. So, I CCD`d the hood (as it was very clean, just dusty) and then QD`d it. I then masked the hood off and got out the PC. I applied the Medallion Cleaner because I thought for sure it would remove the layers of protectant. Then I applied some #7, and then sealed it in with #26. Yesterday, I still noticed the haze on the hood, and you could see the last path the buffer followed in the haze (not sure if it`s the Cleaner path or the #7 path, though. Actually, I can`t rule out that it was the #26 path either). Also, there were quite a few swirls in the paint, and that`s the last time I apply something to the paint without washing first. The car had only been outside for a total of about 2 hrs after washing and before CCD/QDing, but lesson learned. Anyway, what really annoyed me is that damn hazing. I know how to fix the swirls, but I don`t know how to fix the hazing.
Tomorrow I will be getting some APC+ and I am planning on stripping the car again (or, for the first time...) and trying #7 and #26 all over (I`d only tried this with no MPPP on the hood). I`ll also try the cleaner to remove the swirls as it has been pretty successful in the past with my light swirls. I might pick up some #9 when I get the APC+, though, just in case. So, what I wanted to do was ensure that all the protection on the paint is removed completely before I begin. So this morning, I washed with Dawn in hopes it would at least remove the #26 if not the MPPP, and maybe the haze would be gone (at least from the hood). As I washed the car with the Dawn wash (with a little GC wash mixed in) I noticed the water from the suds was pretty flat on the surface. Then I sprayed it off, and the beading was incredible. It was quite obviously still the beading from the #26 as nothing I`ve ever used beads as much as that does. I used the Dawn in the bucket quite liberally, so that isn`t the problem. I think Dawn just doesn`t cut it as a de-waxer. On most of the car, the #26 was about 1-2 weeks old, and on the hood it was about 1-2 days old.
What I will try tomorrow is mixing in some APC+ with the Gold Class wash in the proper proportion it recommends for wax stripping, and rewash the car. I will then spot for bug&tar, and then apply some #7 followed by #26. I am really hoping that this will give me the gloss I want, and that it won`t leave the hazing I`ve been experiencing. My current rationalization of the hazing is that the original MPPP wasn`t removed, the #7 was applied over it, and then the new coat of MPPP removed it, but not completely. And the MPPP/#7/MPPP sandwich is causing hazing since #7 goes on paint, not on protectant. However, maybe it`s the #26 curing or something. I mean, wouldn`t the Medallion Cleaner have removed everything from the hood even if Dawn didn`t? Or isn`t the cleaner strong enough? Or is the problem that I`m not removing the #7 completely? Or is it the #26 curing since I don`t notice the haze at first? Although, to be fair I still don`t notice the haze in the garage unless I look at just the right angle. In direct sunlight, it`s easier to see, but you only see it on body panels that are at the right angle. As you move around the car you see it in new places, and don`t see it on places you`d just seen it on. What the heck is going on??
One thing is for sure, the Dawn isn`t removing the #26. I`d bet it didn`t remove the MPPP because the beading was still there afterwards, but the MPPP beading isn`t so amazing that it`s unmistakeable. It`s possible the bare paint beads that much (although it`s pretty freaking unlikely). What is impossible is that Dawn removed the #26. The beading of #26 is totally unmistakeable. It beads so much it almot defies logic. And it still did this after the Dawn.
P.S. Througout this, I`ve applied Medallion Cleaner, #7, and MPPP (and the original GC) with a PC. The #26 was by hand, and was a paste.
In maintaining my car, I first began using Gold Class liquid wax when my car was brand-new from the factory. I eventually purchased Medallion Cleaner, #7, and MPPP to replace the GC. I used the Cleaner to remove some small swirls and followed with #7/MPPP. This is when I first became suspicious that MPPP was removing #7 (as I outlined in another thread, so I won`t go into detail). As I became more Autopian, I changed my drying procedure to reduce swirls (blot with chamois followed by wipe with MF). I also began to realize that I probably used way too much #7 back when I applied it, and I wanted to top with #26 for more depth. I decided it was time to start from scratch using my new knowledge. I had probably built up about 3-4 applications of MPPP (don`t know if it really layered), with the most recent about 1-2 weeks before I tried to strip it.
So, I was all set. I had just purchased some Dawn blue (not the concentrated, just the regular) soap to use to strip the car. Also, my #26 would be arriving later that day just in time to top my MPPP. So, I washed with Dawn, and I was amazed by how the water still beaded a bit and ran off so easily (MPPP was never an amazing beader, and after the Dawn wash, the beading was still about the same as before). So, I felt the surface with a plastic bag (sandwich bag), and clayed the hood because it felt bumpy with the bag on my hand. It still felt bumpy with the bag, and felt smooth-as-glass without the bag on my hand (just as it did before I clayed). So, I figured the car didn`t need to be clayed because it all felt smooth-as-glass. I also figured I didn`t understand the plastic bag trick... I dried the car off and then proceded to apply #7. The #7 seemed to help the depth and hide the few light swirls, and of course, the MPPP made it look like it did before the #7. I applied two coats of MPPP and then later in the day I applied one coat of #26. The next day, I Quik Detailed and then applied another coat of #26.
I was quite pleased with the way #26 brought out more depth, but I began to realize I could do better with #7 followed by #26 without the MPPP. I also began to notice that in direct sunlight, there is a hazy look to the paint. I first really noticed it on the hood and thought maybe the engine heat did it. It almost looks like I didn`t remove the #7 or something. However, I don`t think that`s the case as it is everywhere, and I was pretty thorough in buffing it off. I began to wonder if maybe the original MPPP wasn`t removed with the Dawn wash, and that putting #7 on top of the existing MPPP caused the haze. The new MPPP should have removed the new #7, but maybe it leaves a little of it.
About two days after I washed the car (and was amazed by the #26 beading), as I noticed the hazing more and more, and I noticed it all over the car, not just on the hood, I decided I just had to try to see what was causing it. So, I CCD`d the hood (as it was very clean, just dusty) and then QD`d it. I then masked the hood off and got out the PC. I applied the Medallion Cleaner because I thought for sure it would remove the layers of protectant. Then I applied some #7, and then sealed it in with #26. Yesterday, I still noticed the haze on the hood, and you could see the last path the buffer followed in the haze (not sure if it`s the Cleaner path or the #7 path, though. Actually, I can`t rule out that it was the #26 path either). Also, there were quite a few swirls in the paint, and that`s the last time I apply something to the paint without washing first. The car had only been outside for a total of about 2 hrs after washing and before CCD/QDing, but lesson learned. Anyway, what really annoyed me is that damn hazing. I know how to fix the swirls, but I don`t know how to fix the hazing.
Tomorrow I will be getting some APC+ and I am planning on stripping the car again (or, for the first time...) and trying #7 and #26 all over (I`d only tried this with no MPPP on the hood). I`ll also try the cleaner to remove the swirls as it has been pretty successful in the past with my light swirls. I might pick up some #9 when I get the APC+, though, just in case. So, what I wanted to do was ensure that all the protection on the paint is removed completely before I begin. So this morning, I washed with Dawn in hopes it would at least remove the #26 if not the MPPP, and maybe the haze would be gone (at least from the hood). As I washed the car with the Dawn wash (with a little GC wash mixed in) I noticed the water from the suds was pretty flat on the surface. Then I sprayed it off, and the beading was incredible. It was quite obviously still the beading from the #26 as nothing I`ve ever used beads as much as that does. I used the Dawn in the bucket quite liberally, so that isn`t the problem. I think Dawn just doesn`t cut it as a de-waxer. On most of the car, the #26 was about 1-2 weeks old, and on the hood it was about 1-2 days old.
What I will try tomorrow is mixing in some APC+ with the Gold Class wash in the proper proportion it recommends for wax stripping, and rewash the car. I will then spot for bug&tar, and then apply some #7 followed by #26. I am really hoping that this will give me the gloss I want, and that it won`t leave the hazing I`ve been experiencing. My current rationalization of the hazing is that the original MPPP wasn`t removed, the #7 was applied over it, and then the new coat of MPPP removed it, but not completely. And the MPPP/#7/MPPP sandwich is causing hazing since #7 goes on paint, not on protectant. However, maybe it`s the #26 curing or something. I mean, wouldn`t the Medallion Cleaner have removed everything from the hood even if Dawn didn`t? Or isn`t the cleaner strong enough? Or is the problem that I`m not removing the #7 completely? Or is it the #26 curing since I don`t notice the haze at first? Although, to be fair I still don`t notice the haze in the garage unless I look at just the right angle. In direct sunlight, it`s easier to see, but you only see it on body panels that are at the right angle. As you move around the car you see it in new places, and don`t see it on places you`d just seen it on. What the heck is going on??
One thing is for sure, the Dawn isn`t removing the #26. I`d bet it didn`t remove the MPPP because the beading was still there afterwards, but the MPPP beading isn`t so amazing that it`s unmistakeable. It`s possible the bare paint beads that much (although it`s pretty freaking unlikely). What is impossible is that Dawn removed the #26. The beading of #26 is totally unmistakeable. It beads so much it almot defies logic. And it still did this after the Dawn.
P.S. Througout this, I`ve applied Medallion Cleaner, #7, and MPPP (and the original GC) with a PC. The #26 was by hand, and was a paste.