can P21S/S100 be layered? (+dent questions)

[imported_donavin629]

Hi,



I called every single number in my phone book under the yellow pages: Motorcycles. About 6 of them sold S100, but none of them had the paste wax. I checked my local Harley dealer, 1 Honda m/c dealer, Kawasaki, Suzuki, etc. No luck :(



(Anyone in the East Bay of NorCal know where to get S100 wax?)





Anyway, I have two main questions about S100:



1) Can it be layered with the same outcome as Souveran? I`ve heard of people layering Souveran very thick, and I was wondering if there were any diminishing returns for the S100.



2) Is the S100 shine DEEP like Souveran? I really want depth, a paint surface that I could drown in. Does S100 do this? On the CMA site, it says that it creates more of a bright shine if I remember correctly.







Lastly, I`m not sure where they came from, but I have little indents on my hood. They`re very invisible unless u get an indirect glare of even light shining onto the whole hood (such as a grey bright sky).



I can feel them just barely if I run my hand across the surface with a MF. The sizes are approximately 3`` in diameter. Is there any kind of repair shop that can "massage" these slight concavities outward? Right now there are about 3 on the passenger side, 2 little ones on the driver`s side, and one on the passenger center. If I had to estimate, these indentaions would only be about 1-2mm below the normal hood height. (Think of the little Snapple pop top lids when you first open it up, it`s in the position when the bottle is still sealed, but on a bigger scale)



Let me emphasize, these imperfections are very subtle and cannot be seen unless you know how to look at the hood. But I really want to get these fixed and I was just wondering if any of you guys could help me.



thanx!

[shaf]

S100 I feel is a great Souveran alternative since it`s just as easy to use (from what I`ve heard about S), and only a fraction of the cost.



These dents you speak of sound awfully shallow if you can`t see them except in strong light. I don`t think PDR is capable of fixing that. Usually a dent is reduced by PDR, but not 100% removed, and a small spot like your little dents are still left behind. Take it to a PDR specialist and see what they say.

[Black Bird SC]

I`ve been around the PDR scene a little bit. They will be able to tell you if they can 100% remove the dents, or just make them less noticeable. Find a shop that does the PDR in shop, and not a shop that calls in a "dent wizard" once a week to take care of stuff. Shops that have PDR guys as permanent employees will be more likely to stand behind the work to your satisfaction. I would say they should be 100% removable. Goodluck.



Rich

[Scottwax]

Like the others said, a good PDR shop can tell you if they can fix your indentations. From how you describe them, it seems they would be able to.



S100/P21S has a look that is very similar to Souveran-very wet and shimmery, but the paint does look a bit brighter and a touch more reflective (I`ve posted some pics in the detailing review forum). Even on a puke color Cherokee (that is what the color looks like, sorry), the paint looked very deep and wet. It also seems even slicker than Souveran.



At $14.95, it is definitely worth trying.

[mrdetailer]

Just after I purchased my P21S I contacted their technical support. They said two things that I found to be very relevant. 1. They recommended a new application every six weeks. And, 2. They said it doesn`t layer.



My blaze red Mazda has a P21S top coat on for exactly 6 weeks. Our weather has been scorching with one acid rain storm once a week. I left the hood with 3M Perfect-It Show Car Wax, and waxed half of the roof and trunk with Meguiars #26, and P21S. I really liked the look, and it seemed to be beading well until it hit 6 weeks. I washed it this morning and was surprized to find that the Meguair`s #26 and P21S sections were absolutely flat. No beading at all. The Perfect-It Show Car Paste Wax still beaded well. And unless you do a careful examination it looks just as good.



They were absolutely correct. Redo every 6 weeks, and it doesn`t layer. But boy it sure looks beautiful before it dies. Great product -- as long as you don`t mind waxing every 6 weeks.

[shaf]

Originally posted by mrdetailer

And, 2. They said it doesn`t layer.

Uh oh, I don`t like that... :( (see sig)



Help

[Scottwax]

Originally posted by mrdetailer





My blaze red Mazda has a P21S top coat on for exactly 6 weeks. Our weather has been scorching with one acid rain storm once a week. I left the hood with 3M Perfect-It Show Car Wax, and waxed half of the roof and trunk with Meguiars #26, and P21S. I really liked the look, and it seemed to be beading well until it hit 6 weeks. I washed it this morning and was surprized to find that the Meguair`s #26 and P21S sections were absolutely flat. No beading at all. The Perfect-It Show Car Paste Wax still beaded well. And unless you do a careful examination it looks just as good.



That`s odd. From my own experience, 3Ms Perfect It paste only lasts a few weeks before the beads look flat and no beading after about 4 weeks. I can usually get 10-12 weeks from #26 and similar from both Paste Glaz and Souveran.



Guru Report`s wax test got 6 weeks of beading from 3Ms wax (very light beads at 6 weeks), 8 weeks out of #26 (beads were light at 8 weeks), 6 weeks of good beading (with very few beads at 8 weeks) with P21S. Both Souveran waxes beaded through 5 weeks, with no beads at 6 weeks.



Maybe the acid rain in your area (we don`t get any in the Dallas area) affects P21S and #26 more than the 3M wax. :nixweiss



I have waxed several cars now with S100/P21S, so I will keep a close eye on how long they bead for.

[rufuz]

When you say the wax can`t be layered does that mean you should strip the wax and add a new coat?

[Spork]

Any wax will strip the first layer at least to some effect. The solvents used to soften the wax are bound to soften the first layer to be at least somewhat removed when wiped off. I think some of the sealants are not as prone to this. My concern is do they suggest the gloss enhancer every time you wax?

[mrdetailer]

But in my experience, if you have pure wax that requires preparation, it can be layered if you wait a while between coats. I`m sure by now that you loose some between coats, but visually the depth gets better and better if you wait between layers.



I wonder if the short time lasting on the P21S and Meguiars that I experienced was also caused by our extremely low humidity conditions as well as the heat. I`ve certainly had it last much longer other years.



I did the same test just a day later on my white Subaru. ON that car, the P21S and Meguiars were still holding up. But I liked the beading and appearance so well I put a second P21S coat on the hood and roof. Absolutely great.



ScottWax. I have also had similar experience with 3M Perfect-it with single layers. But with at least 3 I have been able to get 4 months of excellent protection.

[tom p.]

..that`s surprising to hear. You can`t layer the P21S carnauba wax??? I wonder why they would say that.



Well, I have layered (at least I thought I did) P21S carnauba on one of my cars. I thought it looked pretty decent. Perhaps it was just my imagination. I think I did 5 applications over a weekend. Once the car is clean, it takes no time at all to do the car.





What is S100?? Isn`t that the product line name for their motorcylce products?

[Taxlady]

What is S100?? Isn`t that the product line name for their motorcylce products?



From what I`ve read here at Autopia, S100 is the same as P21S, but with a different label for motorcycles. And, it`s apparently usually cheaper than P21S.

[imported_seres]

On the longevity issue -- isn`t a carnauba wax supposed to wear away - in order to move dirt away from the surface of the paint? This quote is from DC Car Care Website (http://www.dccarcare.com) (discussing the use of car wash soaps):




The act of washing with ANY product will take a little bit of your wax off. That is what it`s designed to do! Wax is supposed to slowly wear off to keep dirt from embedding in your paint. That is why Carnuba is such a great product. Every time you wipe, wash, rinse etc your car, you strip wax. It`s going to happen no matter what you use.



I think his premise is that you want the wax to gradually wear away in order to protect the paint.



It seems that most natural products will be basically gone in 6 weeks or so - of course, depending on how often you wash, your environmental conditions, etc., etc.



I`m surprised that you can`t layer P21S, since it`s a pure carnauba and not a cleaner wax. :nixweiss I haven`t tried yet (no time!!) so I just have one coat. Did the P21S folks give a reason that it couldn`t be layered?



P.S. -- p21s & s100 are the same -- p21s retails for about $24.95; s100 for $14.95 - go figure!!?? Just hope the p21s folks don`t figure out that we`re all buying s100 and up the price!! :D

[shaf]

I thought I was layering P21S to the moon too. :(

I`m trying something new now. Let`s see what happens.