clear coat prep for sealants

[SXTMagnum]

yes, i am a newbie for posts.:wavey yet, i have been a voyeur for many hours, weeks. i registered, but i can already tell i will become a supporting member. i didn`t realize their were "others" out there who didn`t think it was a waste of time to protect their rides. thanks for all the great info. i have specific questions though.



i have decided to try a synthetic system. for the carnuba guys, please don`t click the "back" button. i really respect your experience with this subject.:xyxthumbs



i have decided to trade the "advantages" of the carnuba for the "longevity" of the synthetic. we all understand that paint prep work ultimately determines the final appearance of all detail work.



my paint is metallic medium gray with slight "mica" effects of brown covered with clear coat and new as of 2001. these effects are pleasing. there are towel swirls all over.:o there are three small places that are deeper scratched areas. none of these are through the clear coat. i would like to prep the whole surface properly before i apply the "polish" and the "sealant".



i would prefer not to remove material if possible. my main purpose is to hide the swirls and scratches (and orange peel if possible) by hand. if i prep one area a night, that is ok. i am not in a hurry, quality counts here.



i have chosen a product that has mixed reviews for a reason. my "color" is truly in the "middle" of the color spectrum. i am forced to experiment.:sosad this is why i feel it is important to prep the paint surface for the final appearance.



mainly, with a clear coat, by hand, what do i do before i polish and seal? here is my evaluation:



from your posts:

alkaline wash

clay

brand wash

SMR by hand (brand, type?)

brand wash

IHG

brand wash

brand polish

brand sealant

:nixweiss



i really want to prep the paint for a great synthetic finish. oh yea, i have a digital camera. i will be posting my process step by step per your recommendations. i have all new MF products of the correct origin standing by.



oh crap look at that time!:scared she was in the mood, too.:bounce "honey, are you awake? i love you.":bow



gotta go...please post...

[itsme]

I don`t think you need the IHG step, because IHG are mostly fillers. If the wash step after it doesn`t wash them out, the polish step will.

[imported_StyleTEG]

You could get away with less washings if you so desired



I would wash after the clay, but you could SMR -> IHG -> Polish with out washing inbetween.

[Andre']

This is what i would do.:)



#1. Dawn wash.

#2. Clay.

#3. Skip it.

#4. Polish with a SMR ( 3M`s Perfect-It Swirlmark remover.

#5. Skip it.

#6. Skip.

#7. Skip.

#8.Ok

#9.Ok



If you`re using a sealant like Black fire you don`t need to wash the car before you apply the sealant.



With a product like Zaino you need to Dawn wash after polishing to remove the oils from the polish so the sealant can bond to the finish properley.:)

[imported_89LXi]

I spoke to Sal Zaino about what to do after using SMR and he told me to wash with Z7 and apply Z5/Z2. Apparently the Z7 will remove enough of what SMR leaves behind to adequately prep the paint finish.

[SXTMagnum]

ah. i see that IHG is a little misleading. it is a polish. i will skip that.





what to do when i want to re-apply brand polish and sealant:



after several washings and QD`s, will the swirls come back?

will i use the SMR again?

if there are no swirls, is there something to use in that SMR step instead (maybe PPCL) or just brand polish and seal after washing?

[imported_Tony]

Mr.W



I have a suggestion, just my 2 cents. Contact thevolvoguy by pming him and get him to help you remove those swirls. I don`t know thevolvoguy. I have only read his post. The lesson alone would be worth the price and it would be a great basis for maintaining your car.

[imported_StyleTEG]

Originally posted by mr.w

if there are no swirls, is there something to use in that SMR step instead (maybe PPCL) or just brand polish and seal after washing?



If your car is 100% oxidation, swirl, and contamination free.. then I would just skip polishing. Since polishing does remove some clearcoat, I find its a good rule to only polish as much as necissary.



I rarely come across a car that doesn`t need at least some very mild polishing though. If you have very minor swirls/oxidation then a mild (polish/paint cleaner) could be used instead of SMR.

[SXTMagnum]

when i use polish, it will not have abrasives in it. i consider anything with abrasives a compound. call me crazy.:argue



it`s like when you try to order "a hamburger." no two joints fix `em the same way. that`s why i started ordering "plain, plus...then i name my ingredients."



the way i see it you`ve got:



cleaners - things that clean

compounds - things that remove material

polishes - the thinnest layer of pretty stuff that hides things but doesn`t last long

sealant - pretty stuff that lasts longer whether it`s natural or man made

casseroles - pour 2 or more of these is a plastic bottle, shake violently, sell millions



it`s up to us to assess each particular paint, any issues it has, and the desired result. then apply our knowledge of technique and available products with blood, sweat and tears. lookin` forward to it myself.

:D mark r woods:xyxthumbs

[imported_StyleTEG]

Sounds like your are thinking of a glaze. (at least by my definition :) )



Anyway, I wouldn`t bother using one. Polymer Sealants won`t bond to the oils, and the presealant products will remove all it anyways. (AIO, Dawn/Z1, Blackfire GEP, etc)

[SXTMagnum]

glaze? quote from CMA website: "Machine Glaze is a pure polish. It is designed to enhance the paint`s gloss, not remove swirls or oxidation." yes that fits. i dunno. if you notice, they also call it a polish. is it a glaze or a polish? like i said i am a newbie at communicating with others in the biz.



here are a couple of examples of why that would confuse me. this one is a glaze. it has abrasives.

http://www.meguiars.com/product_showroom/showproducts_template.cfm?SrcLine=PP&SrcCat=2 notice that was the same company that called a product without abrasives a glaze.



these are a polish. they have no abrasives.

http://www.properautocare.com/blacglosenpo.html

http://www.properautocare.com/kla-16.html



and then there is this miraculous product that defies all previous nomenclature. it is not alone either.

http://www.properautocare.com/pin-200.html give me a break. it is a freaking polish...glaze...whatever...



i know for a fact this miscommunication is not our fault at all. so please don`t misread my frustration with learning these things instead of it all making sense immediately with debating your experience and knowledge. that would be foolish of me.



i would love to call all products that don`t have abrasives that you apply to make the paint look perfect before you seal it, "glaze." i just don`t see the manufacturers making it this simple for us.



i am still a bookworm at this. i appreciate all of your responses and advice. none of it has gone down the polished toilet. everything i read is being written down and followed up through research other than this forum. i enjoy it. before i put anything else on my $$,$$$ vehicle, i want to know what it will do - good and bad. i think we all do. that`s why we are here.



my confusion is lying in the marketing and merchandising of independent manufacturers. they do not all call apples apples. some call it fruit. others call it natural sugar. i don`t know. ya know?



too much typing!



*IMPORTANT*

i would like to know if these products "stain" the plastic and rubber please. if they do, how do i get it off? i ruined (my words. no one else knew it was there) a nice vehicle`s trim like that. i never did get it off. i know how to conceal it very well though.



3M Perfect It II Rubbing Compound 39002

3M Perfect It Swirlmark Remover 39009

Meguiar`s Clear Coat Body Scrub Paint Cleaner

end of *IMPORTANT*



i want to "work" the paint once only then maintain it afterwards. i do not want to keep removing good material when i polish/glaze. that`s why i am having to read everything about each and every product before i decide. it would be a little easier if manufactures "spoke the same language."



new catagories for sensible communication:



1.things that clean material

2.things that remove material

3.things that look pretty on material

4.things that seal everything under it



is being that simple all that complicated?



that looks like a new thread.

[imported_StyleTEG]

my confusion is lying in the marketing and merchandising of independent manufacturers. they do not all call apples apples. some call it fruit. others call it natural sugar. i don`t know. ya know?



I agree completely. I beleave alot of it stems from marketing. The average joe has herd of polishing and waxing, but not glazing. So labeling a glaze as a polish would create more sales because people have herd that "you should polish before you wax", instead of "you should glaze before you wax".



My reasoning behind why a polish is abrasive and a glaze is a filler stems from the definition of "polishing/glazing", and David B`s e-book on detailing has a glossary that has a simmilar description. In reality it doesn`t matter what is called what, as long as everyone knows what it is talking about.






pol·ish To make smooth and shiny by rubbing or chemical action.



glaze A thin smooth shiny coating.



(got these from websters)





For trim, I find that peanut butter soaks up the oils from carnauba, and filler oils. It works quite well, even though it sounds odd. I have never really had a problem with trim being stained though, and have used most of the products you listed.

[imported_Tony]

Yes marketing is a b***h.





I highly recommend the e-book by David, at least review the free chapters.



http://autopia-carcare.com/accgtd.html

[Lemonxxs]

The e-book has a glossary page which defiens the glaze, polish etc etc ...check it out.

[SXTMagnum]

thanks guys. :xyxthumbs ok. this is good. so regardless of what is the label says, the trade names are the following:



cleaner - removes impurities and all products down to the paint

soap - a mild cleaner

polish - has abrasives for removing a little paint

compound - has abrasives for removing a little more paint

abrasive - for removing a lot of paint

glaze - a light coating to fill and soften imperfections in paint

sealant - a long lasting glaze

wax - sealant made with products from nature



am i close yet?