Is it true my Souveran yellows?

[RCK]

Take a look here. This fellow claims that once he removed the carnauba his white was whiter. I think it would be a lighting difference more than anything. Care to comment?



http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=300250



Thanks,

Joe

[imported_killerjg]

There are some archived discussions on this. I have experienced no yellowing with Souveran. Only used it on a Moonstone and Dark metallic green.



On the Moonstone when I used PPG I did notice a very very slight yellow tint when hit by a setting sun. I was purposely looking for it.

[Jngrbrdman]

It is only logical to believe that a wax or polymer will change the color of the paint. After all, what is color if it isn`t light being reflected back to your eyes? Polymers and waxes change that reflection so it comes back differently. That is what makes the depth and wet look that we all love. It is also going to alter the perception of the color of the car. Its something that you would only notice if you saw the car before the treatment or if you saw the difference when you stripped it. my car looks much whiter when I do an ABC wash and strip everything off. I like the deep wet look that all my layers of polymer and carnuba give it. I`ll take a slightly creamier color in trade for that.

[MikeLS]

I think his test is right on, as I have experienced quite a bit of "yellowing" with carnauba in the past. The absolute worst offender IMHO is Meguiar`s waxes. Multiple coats will definitely leave a yellow tint from my years of experience with them. The amount of yellowing varies by formula though because of the different ways carnauba is refined. Check out the Pinnacle page on carnauba and notice the pure yellow versus the refined in the side by side comparison of its pure form: http://www.properautocare.com/pinnaclewaxes.html



Look closely at the refined "whiter" side and you can still notice a yellow tint.



Basically, the more pure or unrefined a carnauba is, the more it is likely to yellow after several coats. If it is more refined, like Souveran or Paste Glaze, the effects of yellowing wil be less pronounced, but will still occur over time. Carnauba in its natural state is very yellow. When it is bleached, often called "ivory carnauba", much of the yellowing is taken out so that the final finish remains as pure as possible.



Will you notice "yellowing" on a bright yellow Vette? I doubt it...;)

[imported_doug]

Gee. If that wax builds up enough to impart a yellowish tint, then it must last a helluva lot longer and be more durable than all the polymer-lovers seem to think. Aren`t they contradicting themselves? ;)



You can easily see on the `vette photos that the "before" pic was shot under incandescent light (see the reflections) and the second was shot outdoors.



I`m not saying a huge build-up of wax couldn`t impact a yellow tone - but in my experience carnauba lasts no more than 8-12 weeks. I don`t have a white car - but if i did, I don`t think I`d worry too much about it yellowing.

[imported_Intermezzo]

Originally posted by CRUZMISL

Take a look here. This fellow claims that once he removed the carnauba his white was whiter. I think it would be a lighting difference more than anything. Care to comment?



http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=300250



Thanks,

Joe



I don`t know anything about carnauba wax yellowing or not, so I won`t say anything about that.



However, those photos prove nothing....imo. Like carguy said, one is indoors and the other is outdoors.....and the distance (or zoom) from which the photo was taken are no where near each other. What`s funny is how the subsequent posters are all nodding in their heads in approval, noting how there`s a definite difference....

[Andre']

I agree with Intermezzo and carguy it`s all in the pictures. ;)

[DETAILKING]

It`s really not a big deal, it`s all a matter of preference. What you are seeing is the effects of the carnuba wax on the paint. Think of it like this. Picture a white or yellow candle (wax). shave a micro thin layer of it off. Can you see through it? Yes........ Is it 100% clear? No...........



Carnubas will always tint the finish and actual color of the paint somewhat, again not a bad thing as long as you like how it looks. For metallic colors, I feel it actually mutes the appearance and a system with higher optics should be used for the best results.

[imported_Blake]

Sorry but this discussion wouldn`t mean anything unless both photos were taken in the same light. I`ll bet the Zaino`d finish looks real yellow at sunset. If the carnauba`d hood had been taken in the same light as the z`d hood they would have looked the same.

[Lemonxxs]

Pics on the web are not true representations of the look you would get up close....Pictures are great but I do not think you could be that subjective with them.....I have taken some and they do hide flaws and can change the colors of things being it digital or film....Ie it is hard to tell from a pic what the true paint actually looks like as compared to if you were really there looking at it.



Take it with a grain of sand from a nice beach:D

[Jngrbrdman]

Originally posted by Guess My Name





Take it with a grain of sand from a nice beach:D



Thanks for that. I just had this terrible image of a grain of sand under my wax pad. <shudder> :shocked

[MikeLS]

Actually, the guy mentions that BOTH pictures were taken outside, from the same angle, and same time of day. Regardless of what pictures show, it`s a real effect of using the wax product, not some camera trick to fool everyone. I`m sure he saw a difference in his eye and tried to capture it on camera. Photos almost never capture the subtle effects of what you see with your own eyes, especially when trying to capture very faint effects and reflections on a car finish. Besides, it`s almost impossible to take two exact photos with the same condittions, unless it`s in a controlled environment. So, I am giving him the benefit because I know what he`s looking at (and trying to capture), and have experienced it myself.



Also, yellowing has absolutely nothing to do with the durability or longevity of a wax. Back when I used nothing but carnauba, I added at least two coats per month (maybe more) like I do with Zaino now. This was mainly because the carnauba was NOT durable and needed replenishing quite often. The minute after you apply the wax the yellowing effect begins, and applying coat after coat only intensifies the effect. After a while, there is such a buildup it`s quite noticeable...



If you don`t notice the effects of yellowing, then great, but it does happen and is more pronounced on certain colors.

[imported_fethead]

Perhaps some need to think about this, white paint even if protected needs to be cleaned. I have had two white cars that looked completely different, I thought they were both clean until they sat next to each other. Also I now have one that is cameo white so I`ll stick with the carnuba,

[imported_Intermezzo]

Originally posted by Metallic Mike

Basically, the more pure or unrefined a carnauba is, the more it is likely to yellow after several coats. If it is more refined, like Souveran or Paste Glaze, the effects of yellowing wil be less pronounced, but will still occur over time. Carnauba in its natural state is very yellow. When it is bleached, often called "ivory carnauba", much of the yellowing is taken out so that the final finish remains as pure as possible.



Will you notice "yellowing" on a bright yellow Vette? I doubt it...;)



So it`s the carnauba that`s causing the yellowing right? Would bleached or `ivory` carnuaba turn yellow over time, or does the color pretty much stay the same as it is when first applied? The reason I ask is because my P21S Wax isn`t bleached or Ivory carnauba, but the product itself is very white....much whiter than the Pinnacle waxes. Does this stuff have a chance of yellowing?

[MikeLS]

Some premium carnaubas, like P21S, are very refined, which takes a lot of the yellow out, but usually not all. Also, the P21S contains other types of waxes, like beeswax, which can also be a yellow or white refined wax. White beeswax is usually slightly yellow or pure white, depending on how it`s refined. So, more than likely, the P21S contains very refined amounts of beewax and carnauba resulting in a "whiter" appearing wax. This will significantly lessen the effects of yellowing since the waxes are more refined. Consumer grade carnaubas are not very refined (cheaper), and tend to yellow the most. Using a high quality refined carnauba or beeswax blend, it would take a well trained eye to notice the effects and, in fact, you may not be able to notice it at all, even after multiple coats.



All pure carnauba used in waxes is yellow, usually the #1 Grade powder, hence the designation "#1 Yellow" on many products. However, there are different and lower grades, #2, #3 etc... There is no pure "ivory carnauba" wax. The ivory part is created during the refining process usually from bleaching the wax making it more white than yellow to improve clarity and lessen the yellowing. In order for any wax to appear white, it must be refined and usually bleached white, which I assume is the case with P21S as well. It is a high quality formula, and I wouldn`t worry a great deal about it yellowing over time.