Clay more damaging than I thought?

[da_boonies]

This link explains the mechanism of clay and discloses a bit more about its potential hazards than I thought:



http://www.carcareonline.com/overspray_clays.html



I knew that one should not use clay after dropping it on the cement, but I didnt realize that it could also pick up stray particles on the car surface and then continue to scratch the surface as a result!



hmmmm... I`m going to use my clay much more sparingly now.



Any comments on this?

[mika17]

In my opinion, i used the mothers clay bar system one time....i didn`t see that big of a difference, maybe it was just my car not being really dirty but i didn`t ever use it again, it seemed to me that, like you said, particles can be picked up and dragged across the surface of the paint....obviously not being good.

Others tell me that claying is excellent, i still wouldn`t do it...

And how you remove paint over spray with a clay bar is beyond me, it always takes some fine-cut cleaner and my buffer to get that out.

:nixweiss :confused:

[rd_volvo]

I have a gut feeling that claying an entire car seasonally may open up a can of worms. I`ve noticed hair size scratches after

claying. This may be due to airborne things landing on

my finish while claying.



I think clay does have it`s place though, in spot use like contaminants, road paint, etc.



I will probably go with OG Special Touch in the future in

place of the clay for a total seasonal paint prep.

[NogaroS4Buffer]

All i know is that i have a long scratch on my trunk even with very careful use. Didnt see any particles in the clay when it happened. I used lots of lube and kneaded and folded VERY frequently. Main reason I ordered the ABC system.

[imported_doug]

No question clay can scratch. Some are abrasive on purpose (they were developed for use in paint shops.) I recommend Mother`s or "autosol" - both of which are not abrasive. I`m sure there are other good brands - I just knnow those work. You should have a VERY clean car before you clay, you should do it only if it is needed, you should use plenty of lube, and you should need only a few passes over any area to realize its full benefit - after which any additional rubbing is only going to scratch more. For this reason I think the idea of putting clay in a foam pad with a pocket and using an orbital (like Griot`s promotes) is LUDICROUS.



when I clay, I assume I`m going to follow up with AT LEAST a glaze or polish before waxing, if not an SMR.



But when you have above surface defects, nothing works like clay. I sitll like it and use it.

[jrush]

My car was covered with nasty looking dots when I bought it. You could realy notice them too. I figured I would not take it back to the dealership becasue they would only make things worse (was a lot boy once). Also, I have seen too many paint jobs messed up with buffers. I clayed, and have 1 tiny little barely noticable scratch from it. I did the entire car too. It was way worth it. the car looks so awesome. Clay is here to stay.

[Jngrbrdman]

If you have to clay your car then it can be assumed that you have surface damage. If your surface is perfect then why would you need to clay, right? Clay is just one of the first steps for removing the surface contaminants before you can start work on the swirls. I would think that you would want to logicly follow up with a PC and SMR after claying anyway. I haven`t been able to do that on my cars due to the lack of a power outlet close enough that I can bust out the PC. Once I get moved in next month it is going to be the first thing I do. I wouldn`t avoid clay just because it may cause some minor scratches. Just plan on following up with a polisher afterwards and chalk up the scratches acceptable losses. They can be fixed.

[Preachers Sheets]

Like Ginger Bread man said, I even say it to people I know. Claying may cause a bit of swirls here and there but your going to use a polish on the car anyway so why worry so much about it. Sure you may say "well I rather not be so harsh on my paint if I can aviod it" but I feel the swirls put into paint by claying are nothing to worry about. They are more than likely smaller than the swirls you currently have on your car and by the time you fix the swirls you had before you clayed the swirls that were created by the clay bar are long gone.



AlBoston clayed a Benz and he must of put in 20-40 swirls on the entire car if even that. For you people putting alot more swirls in your car it more than likely is how your using it. Don`t take it the wrong way but try to fold the clay a little more. AlBoston was folding the clay about 4-6 times for one door. On the rear hatch I think it took him close to an hour and he must of folding the clay after every 1 foot by 1 foot section.



Overall, you need to be really really careful, the product works great but it does have it`s side effects. It doesn`t cause that much swirling and your going to use a polish anyhow so why even worry. Once your car i clayed however you can fold the clay less and less the next time you use it because not as much junk will be collected.



:bounce

[eboller]

Why put any swirls on at all by using the clay? I guess I can see the advantage if the car has been around for awhile--but having a new car I`m reluctant to do it myself. Even though I know there is probably stuff there--rail dust or whatever. I`ve seen people`s clay after they`ve done it to a new car and it`s amazing the crap that is already on there. However, is that stuff going to kill the paint from the get go? I guess I`d be surprised unless the car is not cleaned and waxed regularly.



I guess I`m of the mindset that less is better--especially with a new car--shampoo and wax. If the risk is getting some swirls that I have to polish out--then that is not an acceptable risk to me at this point. Any opinions?



And I`m surprised I`ve seen clay in the PC idea even presented on websites. Isn`t that a bit insane?



Eric

[Jngrbrdman]

Where do you think your swirls came from to begin with? Probably from your wash mitt or drying towel or something like that. Things that were supposed to help your car caused swirls?! Say it isn`t so! :D Swirls are going to appear anyway. Unless you use a PC on your car every week then you really can`t avoid them on a daily driver. Even garage queens get swirls sometimes. I guess you could say "Swirls Happen". ;)



Clay is very useful in taking care of your paint. It causes just as many swirls, if used incorrectly, as a wash mitt that isn`t rinsed properly. There is danger in everything. The swirls can be fixed and they are really the lesser of the two evils. Would you rather have tiny pieces of metal or brake dust burning a hole in your paint that may cause you to need to repaint it or a couple of swirls that can easily be polished off.

[Preachers Sheets]

I clayed my car and one week later the paint was all gritty. Mind you my car is covered through the week and only driven two days of the week. Clay is a needed step if you ask me. Sure, you can get away with it once every 6 months or once a year if you want but I really really feel the base shine you start with is much much better, you use less product to spread over the surface and everything comes off so much easier.



If your surface is perfect and it could use a clay then I would prob skip that step, I wouldn`t want to put swirls in my car and need to strip and start from scratch but if my paint needs a polish I wouldn`t mind using the clay bar at all.



Clay really helps man. You`ll just need to use it and see for yourself, there is a 95% chance you`ll love it if you are the type of person that spends countless hours detailing but there is a 50% chance you`ll never use it again if you detail alot but your life does not rotate around detailing.

[Footy]

That article has been around for a while. There`s good info on that site, but it has not been updated for the past three years or so. FWIW, it also recommends not using any kind of machine for detailing - which is nice, if you have the time to do everything by hand.



As for the risk of scratches, the same can be said of wash mitts, water blades, pet cats, etc. Any of these used wrongly can potentially cause scratches

[eboller]

Originally posted by Jngrbrdman

Clay is very useful in taking care of your paint. It causes just as many swirls, if used incorrectly, as a wash mitt that isn`t rinsed properly. There is danger in everything. The swirls can be fixed and they are really the lesser of the two evils. Would you rather have tiny pieces of metal or brake dust burning a hole in your paint that may cause you to need to repaint it or a couple of swirls that can easily be polished off.



I understand swirls will eventually happen. I guess I`m more worried about the potential for a scratch. Again, though, you are right that the same thing could happen with a wash mitt. I would think that the potential is less however. Certainly, this may just be more of a psychological issue for me (wash mitt-soft, clay--kind of hard). Perhaps I will try it on my old Mercury Tracer for grins.



Now--I do not understand the chemistry that would cause pieces of metal or brake dust to burn a hole in the paint. It doesn`t make sense to me. I agree they may be embedded--but in my mind the only thing you are gaining there in terms of claying is a smoother surface. I do agree that pollution contaminents have more of a potential to "burn" through. That makes sense, because there could be a chemical reaction there.



I guess keep in mind I`m not going to be a detailing freak (not that any of you are freaks LOL). I just want to keep my car looking very nice, but with minimal effort (I would rather be driving than detailing). So for me I`m also just wondering whether anyone but a detailing enthusiast would notice by visual inspection whether I clayed or not. If my paint is going to rot unless I clay it every 6 months then it makes sense to do. However, if by me washing every week or 2 and waxing an appropriate number of times each year I`m 95% covered--then to me claying may be a waste of my time.



That`s just my opinion. Whether it is accurate I don`t know and I`m certainly open to comments and observations.



Eric

[eboller]

Originally posted by joed1228

Clay really helps man. You`ll just need to use it and see for yourself, there is a 95% chance you`ll love it if you are the type of person that spends countless hours detailing but there is a 50% chance you`ll never use it again if you detail alot but your life does not rotate around detailing.



I guess that`s my dilemma. I`m not interested in spending countless hours detailing. I want the car to look great with minimal effort. I suppose an hour or so of claying every 6 months is not that much time, but I`m wondering how important it really is if the car is washed regularly and waxed (in terms of protection). I guess the only way I`ll see is if I just go ahead and try it out.



Eric

[Jngrbrdman]

The reason that I say "burn" is because the reason I discovered clay was because of little black spots on my car and small rust dots in the finish. I found out that small pieces of metal off of trains (called rail dust) embed themselves in your paint and make a little rust spot. If you live in an industrial area then you are more prone to get something like that on your paint. The black dots on my bumper was brake dust that flew off of hot rotors on the freeway and then landed on my back bumper. If you do a lot of driving then stuff like that is just going to happen. I promise you that it won`t come off with soap and water. It is melted in your finish.



As long as you understand what problems can be fixed with clay then you are armed with information. You can use that information however you like. Most people shouldn`t have to clay more than once a year. I had to clay my Accord twice this year already. (of course, I am a freak and I`m proud of it :xyxthumbs ) If you ever decide that your car is just too bumpy feeling, or if you notice those little rust dots, at least now you know how to fix em. :up That is the good thing.



Claying doesn`t really take that long to do. If you spent 1 or 2 hours washing and claying your car on a saturday then that would be about par. If you wanted to polish and seal it after then you are only looking at a couple more hours. One afternoon with one on one attention and your car will look brand new. Did you see the thread that WeinerXXX put up? Check this thread out (http://www.autopia-carport.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=10466) That shows you what you can do with your car in a few hours of work.