pinnacle souveran paste wax question

[Ecrissman]

Is there any benefit to leaving the carnuba on for awhile. I just bought some of the pinnacle line, the advanced finish polish and the pinnacle souveran paste wax. I applied both using a ancient porter cable.
Some background about the car. New 2012 shelby its not a daily driver, did a two bucket wash with pinnacle shampoo (expected more suds and slipperyness), clayed the entire car with Pinnacle ultra clay, machined the car with pinnacle advanced finishing polish, then machine applied the paste wax. Overall the car turned out pretty good, I missed a few very light sctratches but the finishing polish absolutely removed the ones I had seen. I am going to hit the whole car again with the finishing polish but take more time with it. Then go over again with the nuba.
I want the ultimate depth and shine.. the car color is race red

[mrclean81]

From my experience with Souveran, it seems to be difficult to remove once its dry. If i remember right, its formulated to be removed immediately. Ive never been a fan of machine applications with it, but thats just me. Try doing a coat by hand and see if you yield any better results. Btw..post some pics of that car!

[TroyScherer]

Hand Application:
Apply Souverän by hand using a Polyfoam Wax Applicator. Apply a thin, even coat to one panel at a time.
Souverän™ does not dry to a haze. Once you`ve covered a panel, you can immediately buff using the included Cobra Gold Plush Jr. Microfiber Towel.



Souverän is a WOWO type wax. It doesn`t need to dry to a haze before removal. Based on that there is no real added benefit to leaving it on for an extended period of time. I have not personally used Souverän but I do use Wolfgang Füzion which is the same type of WOWO wax. And I have applied it to the entire car and then removed after it has hazed with no ill effect.

[Todd@RUPES]

First of all welcome to AutopiaForums!:welcome:

Pinnacle Souveran is designed to be applied to the surface and removed almost immediately. There is no benefit to allowing the wax to haze, which may take a while because of the slow drying oils, and may make removal very difficult because of the high amount of carnauba wax in the product.

I personally don`t like machine applying it, I like to work it a section at a time (half a hood/fender/door/quarter panel) and remove immedately by hand. To me there is no performance benefit in applying the wax by machine, and with a wax as special as Souveran it just `feels` right to take your time and enjoy it.

[Dr Oldz]

There is no benefit from letting it sit. Actually I feel it may be worse to let sit as it becomes harder to remove. The extra effort removing may remove some more of the wax compared to the WOWO method since it isn`t very durable to begin with.

[Ecrissman]

I was curious if it would enhance the shine by allowing it t o sit. I will just remove immediately once I apply it like the first time. I was hoping for a "deeper more reflective" shine. Would applying layers do anything, or would I just be wasting product. Since the car is just a toy I may just apply by hand for fun. I thought using a buffer would warm the wax and allow it to work better.

Have you tried any other products that really impressed you? Just incredible brilliance after you used them? Once i machine the car out one more time with. Pinnacle AFP I will be satisfied that the paint is truely corrected. Maybe I am not using the proper products?

[davidmelis]

Hi Ecrissman,

I have used Souveran for dozens of coats on my black car. Dido to everything you have been told by the GREAT experienced professionals here at Autopia.

It sounds like you were a little disappointed saying you hoped for a "deeper more reflective" shine. I sympathize with you as I often think that after first applying it. Here a few thoughts:

1) Souveran is not the "brightest" wax, but it probably is one of the deepest. Think of the wax as being very oily. It does not sit on the paint, but does transform it to be very, very deep. If you have jeweled your paint perfectly with a finishing polish then Souveran will enhance the look that you have achieved with depth, but it will not brighten it further in my experience. For example, I discovered that Pinnacles quick detailer and even its shampoo add more brightness than the wax alone achieves.

2) In my experience, other quality waxes cause the average onlooker more of a initial WOW! feeling at first glance. In my opinion; however, these LSP`s change the black to be too reflective so when you look at the paint from an angle you only see sky and other surroundings. With Pinancle you see the black for what it is.

3) Think of waxes as a woman`s eyes. (I am going to get made fun of for this, but hear me out). Most quality sealants and waxes over perfectly prepared paint are like the bright blue eyes of a gorgeous blond. A man thinks, "Wow!" and is immediately attracted while fighting the urge to take a second look. This is what the brilliance of most waxes is like. NOW, Souveran on black paint is more like the deep dark eyes of a Spanish brunette. There is depth and mystery to those deep brown eyes that cause a man to have a feeling of intrigue. The response is not a wow and a double take, but instead a feeling of wanting to long and deep into those magical eyes.

Does this help!?

[Ecrissman]

Hi Ecrissman,

I have used Souveran for dozens of coats on my black car. Dido to everything you have been told by the GREAT experienced professionals here at Autopia.

It sounds like you were a little disappointed saying you hoped for a "deeper more reflective" shine. I sympathize with you as I often think that after first applying it. Here a few thoughts:

1) Souveran is not the "brightest" wax, but it probably is one of the deepest. Think of the wax as being very oily. It does not sit on the paint, but does transform it to be very, very deep. If you have jeweled your paint perfectly with a finishing polish then Souveran will enhance the look that you have achieved with depth, but it will not brighten it further in my experience. For example, I discovered that Pinnacles quick detailer and even its shampoo add more brightness than the wax alone achieves.

2) In my experience, other quality waxes cause the average onlooker more of a initial WOW! feeling at first glance. In my opinion; however, these LSP`s change the black to be too reflective so when you look at the paint from an angle you only see sky and other surroundings. With Pinancle you see the black for what it is.

3) Think of waxes as a woman`s eyes. (I am going to get made fun of for this, but hear me out). Most quality sealants and waxes over perfectly prepared paint are like the bright blue eyes of a gorgeous blond. A man thinks, "Wow!" and is immediately attracted while fighting the urge to take a second look. This is what the brilliance of most waxes is like. NOW, Souveran on black paint is more like the deep dark eyes of a Spanish brunette. There is depth and mystery to those deep brown eyes that cause a man to have a feeling of intrigue. The response is not a wow and a double take, but instead a feeling of wanting to long and deep into those magical eyes.

Does this help!?

Yes it does, I am a blonde hair blue eye guy, nice rack is a plus too. So much so I have been married to one for quite some time. Sooooo I need to consider a different wax. What do you suggest?
Also after reading more and more I dont think I was using the pinnacle advanced finishing polish correctly. I would work each panel, use a micro fiber to wipe the pad then the cleaning brush followed the microfiber, then reload with AFP. I also only used the same pad for that entire process. From what I have read I probably wasnt getting the full benefit of the polish.
I like the liquid "candied" look of a waxed car. I will admitt the car has depth outside if you look across the hood it looks like the clear or shine is hovering about 6" above the physical hood which is kinda cool. I will post some pictures in this thread tonight.

[davidmelis]

I like the liquid "candied" look of a waxed car. I will admitt the car has depth outside if you look across the hood it looks like the clear or shine is hovering about 6" above the physical hood which is kinda cool. I will post some pictures in this thread tonight.

When I think of a quality candied look on black or red, P21s is the first thing that comes to mind. I recommend that you do a google image search of "p21s wax" and see what you think of the look.

We`ll look forward to seeing those picks tonight!

[Ecrissman]

Ok here are some pictures. So once I went home I decide to break out my 1300watt halogen stand light. What I found were some very lights scratches, tough to catch the light just right but they are there. Once you see the pictures maybe you could suggest how I correct the paint. I will be using the Pinnacle Advanced Finish Polish with the Lake Country 5.5X7/8 CCS foam pad kit, 3 orange 3white and 3 blue pads, pad conditioner, pad cleaner and a pad brush. I will be using my antique port cable 7335, and I basically can only go through the pads I have then need to stop clean and wait until they dry to move on which is fine, once I have each panel correct I will coat with Pinnacle Souveran Paste wax.

OK well I keep getting a security token error when trying to upload so here are some photo bucket links.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee258/Elcrissman/Autogeek/shelby077.jpg
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee258/Elcrissman/Autogeek/shelby076.jpg
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee258/Elcrissman/Autogeek/shelby075.jpg
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee258/Elcrissman/Autogeek/shelby074.jpg
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee258/Elcrissman/Autogeek/shelby073.jpg
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee258/Elcrissman/Autogeek/shelby072.jpg
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee258/Elcrissman/Autogeek/shelby071.jpg
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee258/Elcrissman/Autogeek/shelby078.jpg
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee258/Elcrissman/Autogeek/th_pswshelby0665.jpg (http://s229.photobucket.com/albums/ee258/Elcrissman/Autogeek/?action=view&current=pswshelby0665.jpg)http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee258/Elcrissman/Autogeek/th_pswshelby0664.jpg (http://s229.photobucket.com/albums/ee258/Elcrissman/Autogeek/?action=view&current=pswshelby0664.jpg)http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee258/Elcrissman/Autogeek/th_adfshelby0627.jpg (http://s229.photobucket.com/albums/ee258/Elcrissman/Autogeek/?action=view&current=adfshelby0627.jpg)http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee258/Elcrissman/Autogeek/th_adfshelby0625.jpg (http://s229.photobucket.com/albums/ee258/Elcrissman/Autogeek/?action=view&current=adfshelby0625.jpg)http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee258/Elcrissman/Autogeek/th_adfshelby0623.jpg (http://s229.photobucket.com/albums/ee258/Elcrissman/Autogeek/?action=view&current=adfshelby0623.jpg)http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee258/Elcrissman/Autogeek/th_adfshelby0622.jpg (http://s229.photobucket.com/albums/ee258/Elcrissman/Autogeek/?action=view&current=adfshelby0622.jpg)

[Eagle fan]

That is one freakin bad azz car! Sounds like you dont want the sealent look. If thats the case, I would think midnight sun or fuzion. I always thought that on colors besides black, that fuzion looked better then souvern. But, looks are nothing but preference. You might want to try a few coats of the pinnacle and see if you like it better. Go to a car show and find a look you like and ask what they are using.There is so many quality waxes out there Im sure you will find something you like. Good luck and drive that thing like you stole it!

[davidmelis]

Very nice car! Every surface looks great and it looks like you pay GREAT attention to every detail. You mentioned seeing some marring under your halogens. Are you working the Pinnacle polish long enough? It contains diminishing abrasives and it does require skill and practice. Here is a link to one of Todd`s "how to`s" concerning dialing in the final, perfect gloss:

http://www.autopiaforums.com/forums/detail-institute-presented-autopia-carcare-com/31120-how-jewel-your-paint-ultimate-shine.html

[daveinsweethome]

ole!

[Todd@RUPES]

Hmmmmm I think your car looks amazing! It is very rare that somebody doesn`t love the look of Souveran on their paint, particularly on your car, it looks extremely wet and dark.

If you are looking for a more reflective route, something a little more `candy` shell then you might have to sacrifice some of that amazing depth.

While I am coming a little out of left field, you might want to consider the Klasse Twins (Klasse AIO and Klasse Sealant Glaze).

Back in the old days, using Klasse to bump the shine (it creates a very high gloss look) and then topping with Souveran was the "in" combination. I used to use this and either top with Souveran on red/black or top with P21S on yellow, silver, or blue.

While it is an older combo, the Klasse Twins might bump that shine to the level you want.

[Ecrissman]

Ok well after seeing the scratches I went all out and picked up a flex 3401 today and started doing some serious correction. Dragging the 1300w light around with me, I am making sure every scratch I see is removed. The machine is amazing compared or the porter cable and so far I am impressed with the finish having only done half the car in pinnacle advanced finishing polish. Can’t wait to put the carnauba on now. The shine and depth is already better than before. The clarity is amazing when comparing truly corrected paint to area I haven`t done yet. Will will post pictures. Probably at least another 3 hours to do driver side, trunk, and rear valance. Then whatever it takes to do the carnauba. I can’t believe I farted around with that porter cable for so many years. I will probably use it to put on the Souveran or do it by hand.:rockon