How do you hold a Flex DA when doing vertical panels?

[jps]

http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=264526 (`http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=264526`)

Can you believe they put this on the showroom floor with these swirl marks? [The picture was taken to show the side emblem]

[Ron Ketcham]

Those are not marring that are "swirls", but rather are due to the towels used.



All clears, all mono-coats will mar, but a buffer "swirl" is much different than in the picture.



During my last trip to dealers, manufactureres, and our distributors in Asia, this was common.



They do, as many do here, dealerships and the ones who buy the vehicles, when something is said, get out some sort of "swirl remover" which is usually a filler agent product.



Go to Europe, we do work over there as well, look at the vehicles at the ports, the railheads, the dealers, and you will see the same thing.



The world is not the same as those who are on the forum when it comes to many items which is considered an issue.



Just get it covered up or filled in, use whatever product works good as a "make-up" and go on down the road for a couple of weeks or months.



Ketch

:eek:

[YoSteve]

Ron, is marring different from swirling? Can you please define swirling, maring and any other type things in our terminology vocabulary. I mean, if these are not swirl marks how come we use SMR to get rid of them and not MR ;) I always thought marring was just another term for swirls, so what`s the difference between the two. Please define it for me.

Aside from the part of my car that has failing clearcoat (I had a section fixed incorrectly and at 1 inch you can see marring similar to the picture above) but on all the "original" parts I don`t have swirl marks per say but these little almost scratch looking lines (see the pic) are these considered swirls or marring or both or some thing else? I know that there seems to be a consensus that no car can not have swirls but IMO if you don`t have lets say 3 marks in a square inch then it`s a scratch. Can anyone attest to this or no?

http://yosteveshop.homestead.com/files/swirl.jpg

[Ron Ketcham]

Marring- is any minor marks in a film or surface.



Swirls are one type of marring.

Scratches are another type of marring

Then there is the severity of the depth etc.



Which is why we have that two part technical magazine article on the site under the Magazine Articles Section.



The paint companies have their terms and levels of damage, they classify a swirl as one made by a rotary buffer with a pad.



When in Strongville or Cleveland, these are the terms we have to use when doing testing, etc.



The same in Wilmington, etc, etc.





etc. etc



Ketch

<<>>

[YoSteve]

Thanks Ron :)

[BradE]

Ron,



Don`t you think that it looks bad for a dealer to put a car on the showroom floor that looks like that? I know if I owned a dealership I would not want a car sitting on my showroom floor that looks like that. Maybe it just me.

[Ron Ketcham]

Most dealers today are not "car guys", anymore than the field reps that the manufacturers hire to work with the dealers.



Dealers don`t care if they sold flowers, santized cow manue, or ice cream.



The "iron" is just a product, not a passion.



If the manufacturers start cutting the availability of hot models to them due to low CSI, and they can improve the rating by taking better care of the inventory, then they will step up to bat and have the min. wage kid in the back used clean towels and some instant detailer to hide the marring.



That is about as far as any will go.



We are introducing in late Jan, New Orleans, at NADA, a new package of complete training and etc to the dealers that wish to do things right.



Out of over 8,000 dealers who will be attending, bet we don`t leave with more than 10 or 12 that are really sincere about doing the right thing for their customers.



Ketch

:eek:

[Redcar GUY]

<blockquote class=`ipsBlockquote` >

<em class=`bbc`>Originally posted by Ron Ketcham [/i]
<strong class=`bbc`>Dealers don`t care if they sold flowers, santized cow manue, or ice cream.

[/b]</blockquote>
Yep:) Its all about $$Money$$

[BradE]

<blockquote class=`ipsBlockquote` >

Out of over 8,000 dealers who will be attending, bet we don`t leave with more than 10 or 12 that are really sincere about doing the right thing for their customers.</blockquote>

Wow, that`s kind of sad. :( You would think for the amout of money that they are charging for some cars that they would at least take good care of them. I think customer service is pretty much dead, and it seems that greed knows no bounds.

[rstype]

I have those too. Are they back and forth "marks" about 1/2 an inch scattered all over the paint? They are only visible under bright lighting and cannot be felt with a fingernail.

I`ve tried everything to remove them without sucess. I`m just going to live with it...

<blockquote class=`ipsBlockquote` >

<em class=`bbc`>Originally posted by YoSteve.Com [/i]
<strong class=`bbc`>...but on all the "original" parts I don`t have swirl marks per say but these little almost scratch looking lines (see the pic) are these considered swirls or marring or both or some thing else? I know that there seems to be a consensus that no car can not have swirls but IMO if you don`t have lets say 3 marks in a square inch then it`s a scratch. Can anyone attest to this or no?

http://yosteveshop.homestead.com/files/swirl.jpg [/b]</blockquote>

[Chuckmotor]

My dad`s car`s paint looks very similiar to the paint in the photo. What`s the best diagnosis for that marred (or swirled or whatever the hec it is) paint? What products could fix that?

[rmccall6]

If your refering to the honda, there are a multiture of swirl removers out there. Here at Autopia, we like3M polishes. For thoose, if you have a PC, then Finnesse-It 2 or Machine glaze will work nicely. Hand, SMR

[Chuckmotor]

What if I have an orbital buffer from Sears? Would the FI-II be ok, or should I use the SMR?

[BradE]

Chuckmotor,



I don`t think that orbital from Sears will be of much help. The motor in the orbitals from Sears is not strong enough or provides enough torque for most swirl/scratch removal.

[imported_Bunky]

The Flex is nice and powerful but it a had heavy. It likes to go in a certain direction due to forced rotation so you have to use both hands (one on head and one on rear of handle) to hold pad flat and guide it. It is a breeze on horizontal panels but more difficult on low sections.

The question is how do you hold it when doing vertical panels for maximum comfort during use. I know why some stay with the PC or go to a Cyclo since it does takes some practice and arm strength. You also need to use good position-- you cannot extend it out away like a PC unless someone has great muscles (not me).

I find holding it vertical (pad up) seems to offer the least tiring at the moement but find when the head is pointed at 10 o`clock as what I naturally want to do (how I do it on horizontal panels). The lowest sections are the worst.

Does any lie on their back doing the lowest sections vs sitting on the ground?