Blackfire Claybar Cleaner and Extender

[YoSteve]

I have no idea why I defend this test so much, but....

I had a ureka moment on the way home from work of something we can all agree upon with the CD test.

Here it is, ready? :) ( I promise last thread, but read carefully and respond objectively )

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We all will agree (amongst all the debate) to the assumption that a CD will be softer than your clear coat? Correct?

If you agree with this then you cannot refute this.

Say we have a new product (call it micrfiber boar hair chamois, whatever) and we test it on the CD. We find that it doesn`t scratch the CD one bit.

So we come to the conclusion that it will not (and cannot) scratch your car right away. Period. Done. If it scratched your car it would scratch the CD correct?

(keep in mind that if it does scratch the CD we can`t rule out that it will scratch a car until we try it on OUR cars)

Okay who`s with me, who`s not?

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Something else to think about, I have scratches on my very expensive cd player face, why? Nicsands. I used to use them on my interior dash and plastic, but now I don`t. Not sure if mt`s scratch, but from the CD test, I`ll take the chance and use the "softer towels".
Not everything we do is for clearcoats, most of us have a synthetic layer on our cars (is that softer than a CD, don`t know, depends right?) And then there`s the plastic on dash guages, stereo faces, interior, wood trim. You gonna use a cd scratching nicksand on that? take a side of a CD and and rub it against your dash guage who`s going to scratch who (I won`t do it)? are you going to take a chance with a nicsand on your softcoated wood trim that we know scratches the CD already or are you going to use something that passes the CD test? What about light housings? <strong class=`bbc`>The CD test isn`t all bad, it may not tell you if something will scratch your clear, but it will tell you if it won`t scratch your clear[/b]. (no cancer, butter, diamonds, etc included)

[DETAILKING]

I used a MF towel on my wood trim on my BMW and now it is all scratched. It is very soft to begin with though.....probably anything shy of a cotton diper would of scratched it.........

[bobdec]

If micro fiber towel A readily scratches a cd and micro fiber towel B scratches only after repeated hard rubbing and micro fiber towel C does not scratch the cd even after hard rubbing, which towel do I want to use on my car?



I really don`t care if the cd is harder or softer than my paint or clear coat. Makes no difference. The cd test allows me to at least see that there is a difference in towel A, B and C.



The linting issue is another matter. I`ve never had a Miracle Towel or a Neatitems towel lint on glass or my black paint. In fact, the opposite has been true. They pick up every bit of lint and dust off the surface. My MTs are all more than 2 years old and my Neatitems towels range from new to a couple years old.



After trying literally dozens of different brands of mf towels, I`ll only use Miracle Towels and Neatitems towels on my cars. The others I let my wife use for whatever she does with them inside the house, I don`t even want to know.

[YoSteve]

The point they were making is that the car may not see either products scratch because the CD is to soft to make a determination.



(while we still need to prove that is true or not), I made the statement that if it doesn`t scratch a cd then it won`t scratch a car. If it does scratch a cd then we have to test on the car to find out. That`s all.

[svanderbilt]

Okay, here is a cd test I just did.





Using a real, silver bottomed cd, I rubbed, with medium pressure, the foam polishing pad that came with the Porter Cable 7424 agains the cd 20 times. Then rubbed with medium pressure a nicsand towel 20 times. Result: the Nicsand towel left fewer scratches than the foam pad.



Does this now mean that when people say that Nicsand towels leave scratches on a paint finish that according to my test the Porter Cable foam pad will leave even more scratches? Well those of us with a PC know that the foam pads don`t leave scratches.

[Don2000g]

You just threw the monkey wrench into all of this.

[YoSteve]

<blockquote class=`ipsBlockquote` >

<em class=`bbc`>Originally posted by YoSteve.Com [/i]
<strong class=`bbc`>If it does scratch a cd then we have to test on the car to find out. That`s all. [/b]</blockquote>
are you guys even reading what i`m posting?

your test only said that it scratches a cd doesn`t say it scratches a car, I didn`t say scratching a cd would scratch a car (if I did before it`s why I posted this thread again)

I resaid my point on this thread (the reason why I reposted) about 4 times already and I`ll say it again.

<strong class=`bbc`>If you test a cd and it doesn`t scratch it, it won`t scratch your car.[/b] that`s what I`m saying

Read the bold statemnt and answer yes or no. Do you or do you not agree with the bolded statement (the only thing I have said on this post) Don? Beau? RH? anyone? that`s what I`m now saying remember?

[imported_Adamah]

I dont understand why you want to push this issue but I`ll take your test a little farther for you. As soon as I have time I`ll take a piece of sheet metal, prep it and shoot it with PPG Deltron urethane paint through a Sharpe Cobalt HVLP gun, color sand it to perfection then let it cure for 30 days. Then I`ll do the "rub test" with various applicators and towels and post my findings here. Heck, might as well do a side by side Zaino/Klasse test while I`m at it. :)

[YoSteve]

No need adamah, because we already established that a cd surface is not equal to a cars (after many posts :)) don`t do it for my reasons, if you do, because the CD test has been already been prove to only show us what is softer (not harder).



Again, we did establish that it is softer so if it won`t scratch a cd it won`t scratch a car, that`s all, nothing more, no bother.

[mx5]

YoSteve,

I think some people just like to debate, and will debate on anything they may find a counterpoint for. Don`t take it personal. This country was built on debates. That is what helps us decide which president we have. :)

[Will Dunion]

Just a thought but when you`re doing the CD test, why aren`t you using some kind of wax or Klasse/Zaino when you do the rub test? In the real world you`re either adding "wax" or there is already a layer of "wax" protecting the surface. You are never rubbing the towel on the bare painted surface. Did that make sense?

[Lemonxxs]

The real question should be what is the hardness of a typical clear coat finish. Then what that is handy has the same or a bit softer hardness. That would be a true test.



CD`s have a plastic coating to portect the metal underneath and manufacturers use different blends.



For testing if sopmething scratches your clear coat test it in the door jams or trunk openings somewhere hidden from view. And by all means test it how you are gonna use it. I.e. with the product you will be applying or removing.



If memory serves me right all high quality products instruct you to test in a obscure location to test for colorfast, scratches, and other bad thingys!



Later!



Is it me or is this fun.

[YoSteve]

Well this thing is pretty much over, but I`ll answer for kicks:



scooby2 - we apply that stuff in such thin coats that a scratchy foam pad (if there were such a thing) would not benifit from the lubricity of a chemical (at least not 100% of the time), IMO. (Miracle Towels are used dry too)



guess - you can test to make sure you clear coat is harder than a CD. Bend the CD slightly and rub it on a spot on your clearcoat, it`ll scratch the CD (hence the CD is softer) (If the CD doesn`t scratch then you`re in trouble for having the softest clear around;))

[Old Pirate]

A Clay Bar works by removing bonded contaminants that have attached to the paint?s surface and cannot be removed by washing alone. The contaminants become embedded into the face of the clay. So what do we do? We fold the dirty clay on itself, to expose fresh, clean clay. Of course the contaminants are still in the clay, only not on the surface. Eventually the clay becomes loaded with so much contamination and grit that it can not be folded anymore and it must be replaced.

Blackfire Claybar Cleaner and Extender is your solution to the premature failure and short life cycle of clay bars. Simply spray the face of the clay with the clean and work into the face with your thumbs.

Then dunk the clay into a bucket of water or rinse with a hose to remove 90% or more of the dirt that you where going to fold backing into the clay.

By cleaning the clay bar frequently, you can dramatically reduce the build up of grit inside the clay and greatly extend its life.

Before, the clay is very dirty. Before we would accept this and fold the grime onto itself and keep going. All of this gunk would be pushed into the clay.

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t158/zoomzoommazda5/dirtyclay.jpg

After spraying with Blackfire Claybar Cleaner and Exender and massaging with my thumbs, then dunking in a bucket.

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t158/zoomzoommazda5/cleaningclay.jpg

Almost 100% clean, so I gave it another spray of cleaner, let it dwell for 10 seconds, then masaged again and rinsed in the bucket. Then I kneeded the clay and prepared to keep going.

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t158/zoomzoommazda5/done.jpg

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t158/zoomzoommazda5/classic-motoring_2085_19165915.gif (http://properautocare.com/blclclex.html)
I would like to thank Todd for his write-up and pictures.
Also it`s on sale right now till the 24 of January 2010...........:woot:

[imported_Indy YZF]

I`ve been on the fence about getting this, but after seeing the pics, definately will pick some up.