Leaf blower for quicker cure times?

[imported_ZeroDfx]

I must be doing something wrong. I have a P&C buffer, and was using Griot`s Garage Machine Polish 1-3. I started with the least abrasive, MP 3 and saw no results on my swirls. I then went to MP2, then MP 1, and followed back using MP 2, then MP 3. I saw no difference in swirls, they are all still there. I thought that using the P&C buffer with the abrasive machine polish`s would decrease the amount of swirls.



What am I doing wrong?



Am I using the wrong stuff, I have heard that the Griot`s Garage Machine Polish`s were good. What else should I use, if Griot`s isn`t good.



Any help would be appreciated.



Thanks

[JasonC8301]

Application and technique also contribute to swirl removal.



I am not familiar with Griots polishes, but I do use 3M Finesse It II finishing material to tackle swirls. You have to work the polish into the surface and several application may be necessary. I did 4 application on the hood and trunk of a 99 blue corolla with moderate swirls with the PC and yellow cutting pad (CMA kit.) I spread th product at 2 or 3, then work it in at 4.5-5 and then do a few passes at 6 until the polish is tacky. I use a cotton towel and some QD to help remove the residue. I did this 4 times to make an impact. I rmeoved about 85-90% of the swirls, but then I got a brief look at the car on Sunday, gosh someone washed it and it was not me. Put a few swirls back in, but it can be fixed.



I recommend you do several passes with a foam cutting pad and PC and see if it makes a difference.



Hope you fix those darn swirls

Jason

[FastHappy]

what kind of pad are you using? this could be the problem. like jason, i don`t have experience with griot`s polishes but my favorite swirl removing method is 3m perfect it fine cut rubbing compound followed with pinnacle paintwork cleansing lotion. i`ve tried about a million different ways and this combo works the best. you can top that off with klasse sealant glaze and that should take car of your swirls. if not you may have some really deep swirls that could require something a little more aggressive.

[imported_ZeroDfx]

I have heard from people on another board that Griot`s is pretty good stuff, so I don`t want to throw it away. I am using their polishing foam pad, here is a link to it: http://www.griotsgarage.com/catalog.jsp?L1=L1_1000&L2=L2_1004&SKU=10626 (`http://www.griotsgarage.com/catalog.jsp?L1=L1_1000&L2=L2_1004&SKU=10626`)

Well I appreciate your replies, I will just try to work it in more, and see what I get.

Has anyone on this board used the Griot`s Garage Machine Polish`s? Good & not so good?

Thanks

[Street Dreams]

This idea came to me yesterday, its quite revolutionary :w00t:... or its just silly. Im here to see your opinions on it.

My idea was to use an electric leaf blower on low power setting to help speed up the cure time of your wax or sealant so you can apply multiple coats quicker.

Basically just stand a safe distance back and in back and foruth motions go over the car once or twice with the blower to help the sealant cure faster (dry, haze, what have you)

Thoughts?

[imported_Luster]

I`ve had a fan blowing across the surface of the car to accomplish the same thing. I think air moving across the wax or sealant does help somewhat in drying, I`m not too sure about curing.

But I`m not a huge believer in "cure time".

I know this is a controversial topic, but if I apply a coat of Wet Diamond, I wipe it off immediately, then apply another coat immediately. My method has never failed me yet.

[Legacy99]

I`ve had a fan blowing across the surface of the car to accomplish the same thing. I think air moving across the wax or sealant does help somewhat in drying, I`m not too sure about curing.

But I`m not a huge believer in "cure time".

I know this is a controversial topic, but if I apply a coat of Wet Diamond, I wipe it off immediately, then apply another coat immediately. My method has never failed me yet.Not trying to disagree with you Luster, but some of these product manufactors spend a lot of time and money in there R&D dept. Who am I to say that you can apply another coat right away when their chemist say to wait 12 hrs. probably after hundreds of tests with equipment and chemicals that I have never heard of. They are in business to make an easy product to use and sell as much as they can. If you could layer right away, you would think that would be an advantage to their product. Because I believe in what I just said, I always follow directions. JMO

[imported_Woodie]

I think the first thing is to clarify what is meant by curing. I`ve often seen the period between applying the wax/sealant and buffing off the residue referred to as the curing time. I`ve even read incidents of guys applying the wax/sealant and leaving it overnight before buffing off the residue because they wanted it to cure for 12hrs.

My understanding of curing is the chemical process that occurs after the residue has been buffed off. I`m with Legacy99 on this one - I am not a chemist, so I`ll take their word for it and follow their instructions whenever possible. I don`t think that using a leaf blower would aid this chemical process, but it would be interesting to hear the opinions of chemists on this topic.

[imported_Luster]

Not trying to disagree with you Luster, but some of these product manufactors spend a lot of time and money in there R&D dept. Who am I to say that you can apply another coat right away when their chemist say to wait 12 hrs. probably after hundreds of tests with equipment and chemicals that I have never heard of. They are in business to make an easy product to use and sell as much as they can. If you could layer right away, you would think that would be an advantage to their product. Because I believe in what I just said, I always follow directions. JMO


I think the first thing is to clarify what is meant by curing. I`ve often seen the period between applying the wax/sealant and buffing off the residue referred to as the curing time. I`ve even read incidents of guys applying the wax/sealant and leaving it overnight before buffing off the residue because they wanted it to cure for 12hrs.

My understanding of curing is the chemical process that occurs after the residue has been buffed off. I`m with Legacy99 on this one - I am not a chemist, so I`ll take their word for it and follow their instructions whenever possible. I don`t think that using a leaf blower would aid this chemical process, but it would be interesting to hear the opinions of chemists on this topic.

This is what I meant when I said that my view point was "controversial"!:wink: Very few will agree with me, and that doesn`t bother me too much. :tongue:

I`ve had excellent results but others may not. I`ve actually applied 3 coats of Z2Pro (without ZFX) with no cure time and the finish looked wetter and deeper after each layer. Again JMO.:thumbup:

(BTW, I rarely follow directions... It`s that whole "Different drummer" thing!) :rofl:

[imported_broker99]

This is what I meant when I said that my view point was "controversial"!:wink: Very few will agree with me, and that doesn`t bother me too much. :tongue:

I`ve had excellent results but others may not. I`ve actually applied 3 coats of Z2Pro (without ZFX) with no cure time and the finish looked wetter and deeper after each layer. Again JMO.:thumbup:

(BTW, I rarely follow directions... It`s that whole "Different drummer" thing!) :rofl:

That is interesting Bill. Is the cure time more for durability? I mean the sealant doesnt look any wetter after 12 hours unless you are layering it.
My understanding was always that if you dont let the sealant cure you would wipe it off. Maybe not when you layer it. Does it only apply when lets say you would apply a wax over the sealant.

[Todd@RUPES]

This idea came to me yesterday, its quite revolutionary :w00t:... or its just silly. Im here to see your opinions on it.

My idea was to use an electric leaf blower on low power setting to help speed up the cure time of your wax or sealant so you can apply multiple coats quicker.

Basically just stand a safe distance back and in back and foruth motions go over the car once or twice with the blower to help the sealant cure faster (dry, haze, what have you)

Thoughts?


I think the first thing is to clarify what is meant by curing. I`ve often seen the period between applying the wax/sealant and buffing off the residue referred to as the curing time. I`ve even read incidents of guys applying the wax/sealant and leaving it overnight before buffing off the residue because they wanted it to cure for 12hrs.

My understanding of curing is the chemical process that occurs after the residue has been buffed off. I`m with Legacy99 on this one - I am not a chemist, so I`ll take their word for it and follow their instructions whenever possible. I don`t think that using a leaf blower would aid this chemical process, but it would be interesting to hear the opinions of chemists on this topic.

Dry time and cure time are two different processes. Dry time is often the time required for the solvents or carriers in the wet product to out gas, so that some of the chemical has adhered to the paint and the excess product can be removed.

Moving air over the vehicle should decrease the time needed for products that need to dry to dry. How much and if it is worth the effort is the question. When I use a product that needs to dry I work around the car in one direction and take my time. By the time I finish (next to where I started) the product is usually ready for removal. I usually give it five or ten minutes additionally (wax the door jambs, interior pieces, etc) then remove.

Cure time is the time for the sealant to fully chemically harden, where it is 100% at its peak in terms of performance. This usually takes 8-24 for hours after the dry residue is buffed off. Since this is a chemical reaction I am not sure how much moving air is going to affect it (although it should, I`m not sure how much or if it would even be beneficial).

In most climates Wet Diamond will cure fairly quickly. However in testing we have found that in extremes (think Brazilian Rainforrest) the super humidity can lengthen cure times significantly. In most temperature climates, it should be fully cured with in 8 hours, probably much faster.

But as Bill mentioned, sometimes that just isn`t feasible. So is it better to apply another coat on top of an uncured coat, or just go with one coat?

The actual performance drop off between applying a fresh coat on top of an uncured coat is going to be very little, and even less the longer you wait. You should wait as long as reasonably possible as the fastest amount of curing (and the most amount) in the first hour after wipe-off. If you wait an hour in most climates you should get 90% or more of the benefits of two fully cured layers. Is waiting an additional 10 hours worth 10%? That is up to you or your client.

[TOGWT]

CliffNotes? Version -Drying time as th0001 has eluded to is the outgas of solvents, curing (cross-linking), which imparts adhesion and providess durability

Monocular Bonding

[: chemical cross-linking chains]

Note that drying and curing are two different processes. Drying generally refers to evaporation of the solvent or thinner, whereas curing (cross-linking) refers to polymerization of the binder, which imparts adhesion, binds the pigments together, and strongly influences such properties as gloss potential, exterior durability, flexibility, and toughness. When polymer chains are linked together extensively by chemical cross linking - the formation of covalent bonds between chains; the polymer is harder and more difficult to melt. Curing is required to allow the monomers (polymer building blocks) to attach to the surface and to polymerize into a crystal-clear, impervious film.

It is very important to allow polymers to cure for 12 hours after the haze has been wiped off. If the coating is exposed to contamination such as oil, rain, water, cleaners, etc. before it has cross-linked, the contaminants may interfere with the film, preventing the polymer from achieving its maximum performance and durability.

Wax molecules are (relatively, as we?re talking microns) larger than those of a cross linked paint; water molecules are smaller than paint molecules so it can permeate a paint system. Solvents molecules are smaller on a molecular level than wax, paint or water. A polymer, unlike wax forms a molecular bond with paint once it?s had enough time to cross-linking, usually 12 ? 24 hour.