finishing wood

[janderson]

I just got my car repainted after an accident. I was told not to wash the car for about 6 weeks. I then talked to someone else, who said that you can wash your car, but not wax it. I would like to get my 1989 325i looking good. The car is in great shape. Not really sure where to begin. I would like to wash the car, but I do not want to mess up the paint job.



I just got Zymol carbon for the car as I heard that it was pretty good stuff. After reading some of the posts, I hear that there are lots of other products that are superior to Zymol. I am trying to breath life back into the paint. Do I need to get a machine buffer? I do not mind doing the work by hand, plus a machine buffer is quite expensive.



I am new to the world of auto detailing. I am not sure where to begin. Any input would be great.

[bobdec]

Too bad about the accident. I`m assuming that you just had a part of the car repainted, but regardless of that, it is necessary to keep the repainted surface protected. A car only comes with one factory paint job and repaints generally don`t hold up as well. You can see evidence of this on many cars that are not maintained and a couple of years down the road, the factory paint and the repaint don`t really match any more.



The newer paints and clearcoats that are used nowadays have accelerators in them and dry much quicker than older types of paints. They are actually dry to the touch soon after spraying. Even though they feel dry, there is still a curing process as solvents evaporate out of the new paint. Some painters say not to wash or wax for a certain period of time to allow for the evaporation process to complete. Talking to many painters over the years that do show cars, most agree that you can, and should, start washing the paint right away. Just be careful until it has gone through the full curing process. If you don`t wash it, you are taking a chance that acids from bugs, bird droppings, saps, etc will damage the paint if allowed to sit.



I think there is quite a bit on debate on what to wax the car with, but to be on the safe side I would not put anything other than carnuba wax on the surface right away. A paint sealant may not allow the solvents to escape. I would recommend doing the waxing by hand.

[imported_Page]

Bimmer,

How long since the painting was completed? Most body shops say 90 days after paint job was done before waxing or polishing. What type of environment is your car

You can wash the paint. I would definitely do so. No point in letting contaminants bond to that new paint job, especially with no protection on it right now!


If you are over 60 to 90 days since paint job, go ahead and look at polishing/waxing. Since you have not protected the car since it was painted I would examine the paint. The paint is new, but in the summer, it does`nt take long for road tar, road grime, bugs etc to bond to the paint. It`s better to know what type of surface you are working with before you apply too heavy of an abrasive polish.

You can check the paint two ways

1. With a magnifying glass, examine the paint. Look for swirls/scratches and or small particales bonded with the paint.

2. You can take a cellophane cigarette wrapper and place it over your fingers. Then lightly and evenly run your fingers with the cellophane over the paint`s surface. If you feel rough spots or particles, then you have some contamination on the surface.

As far as other produts. There are many. Folks here like Klasse All in One, Klasse Sealant Glaze, and the Zaino line of polishes/protectants. These products are not really waxes, but polymer sealants. They offer advantages over carnuba waxes in that they normally last longer, have a higher melting point(car sitting outside all day in summer sun reaches very high temperatures), and they give a nice wet look.

Two sites to look at

zainobros.com for Zaino.

Klasse is sold on the sponsor of autopia CMA. OR you can go to

http://store.yahoo.com/klasseproductsdirect/index.html (`http://store.yahoo.com/klasseproductsdirect/index.html`)

Without hogging up the board, that is what I can give you for now. Biggest thing, if you want to learn more. Check out the posts on the board. Do a search under "polishing","waxing", or "new paint" this might give you more info.

Read the Detailing FAQ on the Autopia site, and the Detailing TIPS, search the archives for posts relating to polishing and waxing new paint. There is MUCH info here, and you will be amazed at what you can learn.

Good luck,

SJ

an old detailers joke: Zymol lasts on your vehicle as long as it takes to put on!



MarylandBimmer, I see Zymol recommended alot myself on boards. But I think these people have been tricked into the Zymol hype, and really haven`t tried anything else other than what`s on the shelf at Wal-Mart. I`m sure it has to do with the slick web page and packaging, and a great spin that only the best advertisers could cook up. Are we to believe that Zymol Ital is different to their bicycle wax, their ambulance wax or their SUV wax?



And of course, more expensive is always better, too!



One Grand Bltiz Wax. The only thing wrong with Blitz is the price; it misleads people into thinking its a second class wax because it`s only $15 for 10 ounces! As opposed to $70 for 8 ounces of Pinnacle, or hundreds for 8 ounces of Zymol.



Zymol puts their waxes into acrylic blocks, wooden boxes, satin bags, etc. They come with letters of authenticity, and smell like perfume. As nice as this is, how does this improve the appearance of my vehicle? I guess it would look nice sitting on the dash. Blitz comes in a metal tin, and smells like... well, wax.



Maybe a happy medium between a buffer and your hands is a Porter Cable 7423 random orbit polisher. You can get one to your door for under $120 if you do your homework. Completely safe, and fun to use.

[DETAILKING]

".,...Late model paint technology doesn`t breathe, that`s an

old myth.. once it cures that`s it..... The older lacquers and enamels

needed time for the solvents to evaporate and release, that is where the

term "paint breathes" comes from. Wax would seal the paint and prevent

the solvents from

releasing. This led to a whole bunch of paint related problems. That`s

why paint manufacturers still tell you not to apply WAX for thirty days.

Because WAX does not let the paint breathe.. and actually suffocates

it. All urethane paints and late technology paints use a catalyst for

hardening and

curing. The paint is fully cured in about 36 to 72 hours. You may polish a

new car as soon as you get it.

That factory paint is already cured and needs protection against

airborne contaminants and UV rays. Think about it....how does your paint breath through it`s clear coat?!? If anything, carnuba is the worst thing to put on your new paint. They told you not to "wax" the car. Products like Zaino and KLASSE are not wax......and can be used on fresh paint. The most I would wait is a week.

[janderson]

The car is a 1989 325i. The car is all original (paint) except for the door (originally off of a red 325i) and the back rear quarter pannel. They did a nice job. They said that they used Spies Hecker paint (from Germany I assumed). I did not even think to request BMW paint (big mistake, but live and learn). So the paint job looks nice, and I want to get cracking on the upkeep. I am going to wash it tonight when I get home!



Well the good news about the Zymol is that I have not used it yet, so it is going back. What type of wax do you recommend. I have read through many of the different posts, and lots of waxes are listed. What would be best (I am sure that everyone has a favorite)?



I plan on claying the car over the weekend. I have lots of swirl marks to get rid of, so I have a feeling that might take some time. I have never really detailed before, so I am learning as I go along. Thanks for the help!

[DETAILKING]

Use 3m Perfect it (39009) or finesse it II depending on the severity of the swirls. After that one option you have is to layer on coats of zaino Z5 that will shine, protect the car, and keep noticable swirls to a minimum. Read about it zainobros.com

[imported_Adamah]

I have to disagree with the statement about paint being fully cured in 36-72 hours. While its true it doesnt take long at all for the solvents to dissipate as long as the painter allowed for the proper flash time between coats. But it can take over 2 weeks for the paint to fully harden especially on the lower sections even if the shop has a bake booth. The recommendation that you wait 60-90 days is to ensure that the end user doesnt mar the relatively "soft" surface by polishing and waxing on it.



If in doubt ask the true experts. Email PPG, Glasurit, House of Kolor, or Sikkens and ask the advice of the manufacturers.

[bobdec]

I must agree, paints do not fully cure in 36-72 hours. While they may be dry to the touch soon after spraying (one of the DuPont products I looked at said it was air dried in 60 - 90 mintues at 70 degrees F), it may take considerably longer to fully cure. When looking at `Pencil Hardness` charts of paints, the hardness can increase by 20% or more from the 24 hour drying stage to the 7 day drying stage. And many of today`s low-VOC paints take longer to cure than the high-VOC paints due to a higher concentration of solids to solvent ration. For example, a paint with a 6.5 VOC content contains only 12 % solids. A paint with a 2.8 VOC content contains 60% solids.



During the early days of automobile manufacturing, cars were painted with slow drying cottonseed or linseed oil-based paints. Cars were then sanded with gasoline between brush-painted coats, and then finally polished with emery cloth. This meant cars took about a week to paint, and the final paint job was lucky to last one year out in the sun. Fortunately technology has improved. Factory `drying` time is down to under 30 minutes. Components are painted before the glass, rubber weather stripping, wiring, electronics, interior and other plastic parts are installed. This permits use of high temperatures, from 250 to 450 degrees Fahrenheit, which would damage many car parts. Todays body shops can`t apply nearly that high of heat and when a car finish is "baked" on at a paint shop, it is typically between 120 - 180 degrees. So when dealing with a re-painted surface, you should allow for a longer curing period.



I am not a professional painter, but I have been involved with building and restoring cars for quite some time and also displaying cars at various auto shows in the US and Canada. What I believe you should do is wash the paint when it gets dirty to prevent damage to the paint as I explained in my previous post. I assumed that you would use mild cleaners and the proper drying towels. With care, I believe you`ll be helping your finish, not hurting it.



As to what to put on the finish and when. Many painters say anywhere from 30 - 90 days before applying any type of wax, polish or sealant. I don`t think you`ll have a problem if you wait the 30 day period. Everyone I talked to said waiting 90 days is not necessary, but you may want to check with your painter (consider him the paint expert) and follow his advice just in case it would void any warranty that he may have given you. After the curing process, I still recommend carnuba wax, preferably Brazilian. Wax is a crystal. The buffing process breaks down the crytals and forms a protective, reflective seal. With the normal heating and cooling of the surfaces, especially the top surfaces, the wax re-crystalizes and the seal is broken. Unless you were constantly re-applying new coats or re-buffing the existing coat, you do not have a seal for very long. Therefore, solvents still can disipate into the atmosphere even with a wax coating. I personally put on the first coat of wax 2 - 3 weeks after painting.

[John325]

I`m new to this forum, and I`m not sure if it`s okay to piggy-back on a question vs. start new thread. Anyway here goes: I`m thinking of applying the Klasse AIO & SG to our new Buick Rendezvous.



Question: Is the AIO the right product for new paint, ie, 1 month? I wouldn`t expect much in terms of oxidation etc. at this point.



In applying the AIO & SG, is a cloth application adequate? I heard mention in another forum about getting a random orbital. Can it get me in trouble or would it be a good thing to use?



Are the Klasse products available in local retail stores? I Am also interested in finding the Eagle One - Mist `N Shine Spray. I`m in the San Francisco Bay Area. I`m not sure how long on-line ordering would take to get products to me, and I`d like to apply AIO by the end of next week.



Thanks for any help with these questions.



John B.

[drmcetta]

I believe Klasse is not sold in auto stores, you have to mail order it..
I think you can get them by the end of next week..I usually get my car care products in about 4-5 days at most from http://www.properautocare.com (`http://www.properautocare.com`)

[DaGonz]

<strong class=`bbc`>Maryland Bimmr...[/b]
The factory paints used by BMW are either Glasurit or Speis/Hecker. I would wait the 60 to 90 days before doing any waxing or applying paint sealants. Five years ago, I worked part time detailing vehicles at Foreign Motors West`s Auto Body Shop. FMW is a Rolls-Royce, Bentley, BMW, Mercedes Benz and LandRover dealership. I got to work on and drive a lot of high-end cars there :cool: . The paint shop recommends washing the repainted areas and waiting the prescribed time for the solvents to evaporate before waxing/sealing. It`s safe to use "breathable" polish (we used a polish called "pink crystal" from KarKraft to polish/detail repainted areas at FMW). The polish should say that it is paint shop safe.

<strong class=`bbc`>John B.[/b]

It`s safe to detail your Rendezvous. Check your vehicle build date. Chances are from the time it was built, it has been at the factory for a while. Add rail transit time and truck delivery time to that and you should see that the vehicle is already 60+ days old.

Factory paint finishes today are done with "waterborne" or low VOC (volatile organic compounds, ie. solvents) paints in order to comply with EPA guidelines for paint shop emissions.

[janderson]

I washed the car today. I got up nice and early to make sure that it was still cool out, and washed the car. I used a very mild shampoo (does not remove wax, just removed dirt and grime). The car looks good, and I have a bit more peace of mind, as I do not have tons of dirt just sitting on the car.



I am going to wait to polish and wax the car. First of all, I have never used any real "high end" products to polish or wax the car (I have always used McGuires Gold Class). I really do not know what to order. I was looking through the CMA products, and there are many. I have noticed that Blitz and AIO along with Klasse are mentioned frequently. I was going to start there.



I have never really detailed the car with the appropriate materials, so this is all relatively new to me. I plan on claying the car next week, as it will have been over 30 days since I had the car back from the shop. I am going to try the 3M swirl mark remover suggested in another post. From there I was going to use a polish (not sure which one), and then a wax (I was going to put a few coats on, but not sure which one to use).



This should take up most of my weekend. If anyone has any recommendations on polish and wax, let me know. Thanks for all of the input.

John325, I would highly recommend a Porter Cable 7424 for your new Buick SUV. It`s a larger vehicle, and I`m assuming you probably have at least one other vehicle in the family.



Luckily you live in the Bay Area (for more than one reason!). Virtually every BMW dealership carries Klasse, albeit a slightly inflated price. BMW Of San Francisco carries Klasse, Wizards and P21S.



beau

Pac Heights

[John325]

Thanks for your reply. Do you know a good place to pick up the PC in San Francisco/San Mateo Counties?



Also, what do you recommend for the Smooth cladding on the lower part of the Rendezvous? IS aoi appropriate, or should I use something else? Do I have to be careful about getting aio on the cladding?



Thanks for your Help.



John B.