Detailing PHEVs

[SwedishRider]

There are at least a few PHEVs that will be released in the U.S. in the near future- 2017 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV and 2017 Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid just to name two off the top of my head. What is different about detailing a PHEV vs a traditional ICE vehicle? I would think the interior and exterior would be essentially the same, but what about engine bay and undercarriage? Is there more of a risk of damage if a PHEV`s engine bay were to be detailed with water in the same manner as an ICE car? Are there are other risks to detailing these vehicles?

Anything else to consider when working with a PHEV, or anyone have experience working with them? Thanks in advance!

[Ronkh]

IMHO

Electric cars/trucks area "feel good item". Where do people think the electricity comes from ???

"But it`s good for the environment.........."

Um yeah, plug that bad boy in and feel good.


I`d wash the outside as normal. As far as the engine compartment? Nope, wouldn`t touch it.

[RDKC]

IMHO

Electric cars/trucks area "feel good item". Where do people think the electricity comes from ???

"But it`s good for the environment.........."

Um yeah, plug that bad boy in and feel good.


I`d wash the outside as normal. As far as the engine compartment? Nope, wouldn`t touch it.

The best part about the whole electric vehicle thing in America is they tend to be less efficient than an equivalent fossil fuel vehicle.

We still get most of our electricity from coal. Burning the coal, transmitting the power to your charging station, and charging the vehicle interprets to both more wasted energy and more greenhouse gases than a gasoline/diesel powered vehicle.

I agree with not touching it though. Most electrical systems get wet, dry out, they`re okay. Most systems won`t kill you if you accidentally bump the wrong wire or touch the wrong terminal. It`ll give you a shock, but that`s about it. Electric vehicles store a lot more amperage than a fuel powered car and they can kill you. I`d steer clear.

[SwedishRider]

What I`m really interested in is a Tesla "Model Y", the presumed upcoming SUV that is based on the Model 3 platform at a much more reasonable cost. The reality is that it won`t be available for years (assuming all goes well for Tesla).

I`d like to keep this thread focused on detailing PHEVs, but the case for a PHEV can be made to save money using the current math. Take the upcoming Pacifica Hybrid. Let`s assume the Hybrid comes in at about $10K more than the Pacifica Limited (Limited is expected to be about $43K, and the Hybrid is expected about $10K higher than that). Since the Hybrid`s battery will be 16kWh, it`ll quality for the full $7500 tax credit. Then, if the typical daily commute is around 30 miles or less (and most are), then the vehicle would be running almost exclusively on electricity. Given that gas is going back up around here over $2.50/gal and probably heading to $3/gal, it won`t take long to save the $2500 additional dollars over the Limited with the ICE engine, and begin saving money over gasoline in the long run.

And yes, I know that public tax dollars are covering the $7500. The hope is that the cost of batteries will come down in the long run to be able to be competitive with ICE engines. That remains to be seen... but the mathematical savings are there if someone has a commute that is at or below the electric-only range of PHEVs like the Pacifica Hybrid.

[Ronkh]

<--- sorry for the hijack

[RDKC]

What I`m really interested in in a Tesla "Model Y", the presumed upcoming SUV that is based on the Model 3 platform at a much more reasonable cost. The reality is that it won`t be available for years (assuming all goes well for Tesla).

I`d like to keep this thread focused on detailing PHEVs, but the case for a PHEV can be made to save money using the current math. Take the upcoming Pacifica Hybrid. Let`s assume the Hybrid comes in at about $10K more than the Pacifica Limited (Limited is expected to be about $43K, and the Hybrid is expected about $10K higher than that). Since the Hybrid`s battery will be 16kWh, it`ll quality for the full $7500 tax credit. Then, if the typical daily commute is around 30 miles or less (and most are), then the vehicle would be running almost exclusively on electricity. Given that gas is going back up around here over $2.50/gal and probably heading to $3/gal, it won`t take long to save the $2500 additional dollars over the Limited with the ICE engine, and begin saving money over gasoline in the long run.

And yes, I know that public tax dollars are covering the $7500. The hope is that the cost of batteries will come down in the long run to be able to be competitive with ICE engines. That remains to be seen... but the mathematical savings are there if someone has a commute that is at or below the electric-only range of PHEVs like the Pacifica Hybrid.

There are still problems with them though. First, it`s a tax credit. That doesn`t guarantee you get $7,500. Contrary to popular belief, most people will never recover the added cost of an electric or hybrid vehicle through fuel savings. That`s not even factoring in higher maintenance costs or the problem of finding a shop to do the work. Also, we don`t exactly have the best methods for disposing of used batteries, or an environmentally friendly way to manufacture those batteries.

On top of that, if you`re commuting 30 miles a day in a car that gets around 30 MPG (which are pretty common nowadays and I`d imagine that`d be a minimum for someone contemplating an electric/hybrid) you are going to use one gallon of fuel a day. That means, at $3 a gallon, it would take you about 2 and a quarter years to recoup $2,500.

I`ll stop distracting from the thread now. Do not misinterpret me either, I think they`re great. However, there are things that need to be fixed before I would consider them a solution to our carbon pollution problem.

[SwedishRider]

RDKC, I respect your point of view. You are correct, a tax credit is not a guarantee that anyone will get the full $7500 back. But let`s be honest... someone who doesn`t pay taxes won`t be looking at a $53K vehicle. And I`m not sure what you mean about higher maintenance costs? A PHEV still has an engine to maintain unlike a BEV such as Tesla, but I`m not aware of higher maintenance costs associated with them. And the local Chrysler dealership that I`m talking to is planning on carrying and servicing the Pacifica Hybrid. I don`t see why dealers wouldn`t want it as a car on their lot. The Outlander PHEV is one of the best selling hybrid vehicles in Europe and Japan- somebody has to be buying and servicing those cars.

As far as battery manufacturing and disposal- I have no idea. I`m interested in the longer-term savings over the costs of fuel, and supporting the new technology. Is it perfect? I`m sure it`s not. But I do think we are at the start of a change in the way we view transportation and fuels. Only time will tell how it all plays out.

Me? I`m just wondering how I detail these things. :)

[Ronkh]

Me? I`m just wondering how I detail these things. :)

Outside and passenger compartment the same as any other car/truck. It`s under the hood that`s the problem. These things really pack a wallop of energy. There is a "special switch" to shut off the power in rescue situations to protect rescue personnel when they gotta open the vehicle. So me, nope, let it get dirty.

[rlmccarty2000]

Same thoughts as above except maybe a wipedown with waterless/rinseless on the engine bay. There is less/no oil burning causing heavy soiling that is inherent in a fossil fuel auto. I don`t think I have to say not to use water around an electrical device. I have read the mechanics that work on electric cars don`t even really get their hands dirty. Probably do a wipedown like a normal trunk.

[Ronkh]

Same thoughts as above except maybe a wipedown with waterless/rinseless on the engine bay. There is less/no oil burning causing heavy soiling that is inherent in a fossil fuel auto. I don`t think I have to say not to use water around an electrical device. I have read the mechanics that work on electric cars don`t even really get their hands dirty. Probably do a wipedown like a normal trunk.

Please refrain from using the word "fossil".

(i`m feeling old today)

[SwedishRider]

A wipedown of some kind would be most appropriate I would think. I wasn`t sure how much of a risk (or if there was a legitimate risk) of damage to the vehicle (or to me), but a traditional water wash that would be used for an ICE might be disastrous on a PHEV (or BEV for that matter). I guess I`ll look into a rinseless or a waterless product to detail the engine bay should I buy one.

If anyone else has any other tips or suggestions on how to detail a PHEV/BEV vehicle, please feel free to post. Thanks.

[kevincwelch]

Well, as an electric car owner and supporter, I have a few opinions about detailing them and owning them.

First, these things operate in the rain. They drive through puddles. Sprinklers hit them. People spill water in the cabins. It`s not like you`re sitting on a live 10,000 volt line with sparks flying from frayed contacts! You can foam up these cars, do 2 bucket washes, etc. I`d advise being careful around the charge ports (these cars can be plugged in when it`s raining) and making sure these areas are not flooded. Have a general sense where the high voltage lines are located so that if you`re steam cleaning around indoor panels that you don`t get those areas well. For the Model S, there`s basically nothing you can do to electrocute yourself or damage any of the voltage systems...unless, you plan on jacking up the car for a wheels-off detail. The battery cage is very close to the jack points and you can damage the battery cage if your jack or jackstands are off the mark. (I jack my car up a couple times per year to swap out the wheels or really clean/paint the wells.) Just be careful. For PHEVs, you just have to know what to protect in the engine compartment. Beyond that, I`d say that most general detailing principles apply. For the Teslas, watch out for those screens!

As for the environmental aspect of things, BEV have the potential of running much cleaner than ICE vehicles. A solely electric vehicle can be charged by wind, water or solar energy. Nuclear as well, if that is a significant source of your region`s electricity. Coal, yes. It`s a fossil fuel. It is dirty, but using coal mitigates the foot print required to ship and transport petroleum from around the country or around the globe. Even when you`re drawing off energy from 100% coal, there are quite a few sources out there to suggest that it draws less of a footprint than what ICE vehicles draw. If I purchase battery packs from Tesla, I can use the sun to charge them during the day and power my house (and car) through the night. You could be totally off the grid. At this point in time, you need wealth to achieve this. But, you needed wealth to own cell phones, computers, HD televisions, etc. back in the days. They will get cheaper.

On top of that, my car needs no oil changes. No transmission fluid. No gas treatments. No lubes. There`s a reason why the floors at Tesla stores and service centers are white. The only dirt comes from the tires.

Economical? No. A Tesla isn`t an economical car. If you had planned to buy an Acura TL but bought a Model S instead, you`re not saving money in gas. There`s no way. On the other hand, if you were going to buy an Audi A8 or S7, then yes, a Tesla is an economical car. Tax credit? It will go away once Tesla sells 200,000 cars. Yes, it`s a credit. Anyone who pays more than $7500 in taxes per year is eligible to start getting the credit. If you can afford an electric car, most likely you`ll get all the credit.

Beyond that, Teslas out accelerate just about everything out there. Pretty good for a sedan.

I can also sneak up on you and run over you because I`m so quiet. :)

Don`t get me wrong. I`m a car guy too. I don`t have a moral objection to ICE vehicles. Personally, not having to stand in line to pump gas, having instant heat and cool air conditioning, having a "full tank" every morning, being able to "run" my car during a detail without killing the battery or dying of carbon monoxide poisoning AND the acceleration (Teslas aren`t particularly fast - 125-150 mph max) is enough to make me not want to buy an ICE again.

[Ronkh]

ooops


Tesla quietly kills guarantee of Model S resale value (http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/tesla-quietly-kills-guarantee-of-model-s-resale-value/ar-BBuiCe9?ocid=spartandhp)

[SwedishRider]

ooops


Tesla quietly kills guarantee of Model S resale value (http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/tesla-quietly-kills-guarantee-of-model-s-resale-value/ar-BBuiCe9?ocid=spartandhp)

I`m not sure how much should be read into that article. This is now a time when Tesla is preparing to sell less expensive Model 3 cars that will directly compete with used Model S cars. And Tesla is no longer an unproven startup- they have designed and delivered cars to market for years now. It`s not unreasonable that they would be discontinuing this program at this time.

[Swanicyouth]

Lolz at Chrysler and Mitsubishi making electric cars.

Their gas cars suck. Now they are going to make electrics????

I`m guessing under the hood is a bunch of plastic covers - so waterless wash and a cleaning dressing (like Natural Look) are prolly a safe bet.

In reality, I would be brave and hit them with pressure washer.