wetsanding but orange peel wasnt removed

[donbeezy]

recently worked on a white tundra for a friend and he was happy with the results so he asked me some things about his black 92 (i think) toyota supra. he had water etching and orange peel all over the vehicle. he told me the original color was black, next owner painted it blue, after that next owner painted it back to black. the previous owner told him it had 3 layers of clear on it when they painted it back to black.

i used the trunk lid as my test spot to see what steps were needed. i compounded a small section first just to see. water etching came out easily but orange peel was not removed. i did not have a paint gauge but felt safe enough to proceed with wet sanding. here were my steps.

3000 grit abralon 3" on GG3 at speed 2 or 3, damp/wet sanded.

wiped area dry and blew it dry to inspect. saw it still had minor texture.

moved to 2000 grit abralon" on GG3 at speed 2 or 3, damp/wet sanded.

wiped and blew area dry. inspected and saw a flat matte/no texture surface, i was happy with it.

moved back to 3000 grit then 4000 grit.

compounded and polished the area.

when i got done polishing... it still had orange peel. very disappointed. what could i have done differently to remove the orange peel? or did the person who painted it, just did a real crap job?

sorry no pictures, it was too hot outside to take photos and do the work.

[dcjredline]

Maybe the paint is orange peeled under the clear? I`ve not ever run into that but it`s possible if a layer under the clear is bad and you corrected the clear you`d still see the bad...and much clearer now unfortunately

[ShaneB]

When you wet sand you really should use a block to level orange peel. I don`t think I would try doing the first leveling step with a DA. I would try using a sanding block (stiffer the better) and do an area by hand with 2k grit. then do your follow up steps with the DA

also noticed you were using the abralon discs... were they the ones with the slight foam backing?? That is probably your problem if so. They wont level paint well because of the padding. Try flat sanding discs or sheets with as little cushion as possible

[top189h]

If they primered the car before painting it, the orange peel is most likely in the primer.

[LEDetailng]

When you wet sand you really should use a block to level orange peel. I don`t think I would try doing the first leveling step with a DA. I would try using a sanding block (stiffer the better) and do an area by hand with 2k grit. then do your follow up steps with the DA

also noticed you were using the abralon discs... were they the ones with the slight foam backing?? That is probably your problem if so. They wont level paint well because of the padding. Try flat sanding discs or sheets with as little cushion as possible

Spot on, Abralon foam discs are not designed to level. I tried to remove orange peel with Abralon discs and didn`t touch the orange peel. I switched to 2000 grit on a block and got much better results.

[Migue]

You can get a cheap wet sanding block online which is stiff enough yet soft enough to be able to flex on contours. It is also great to squeegee out the water and check your work much quicker than wiping with MF then blow drying. It`s what I use any time I wetsand, especially scratch repair.

[Stokdgs]

These guys are right ! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

In the auto painting world, all work from primer on, is wet sanding with a hard rubber, flat, block with a light "guide coat" sprayed over the entire area, so you can visually SEE where you have sanded and if there are low spots, the guide coat will remain in them, and you will have to go back over and fix that..

The 3M rubber block had flaps on each end so you could cut the paper to fit and insert it into the flaps where these little nails held it tightly in place..
Just get the size down, fold the paper to that size, crease the paper a few times and it will cut off easily as you pull it from the end of one crease line..

The Guide Coat was a spray can of flat black lacquer which was just misted on enough so you could see it, evenly (because you are a Painter) over the entire area that will be wet-block-sanded...

You sand in a cross hatch pattern with water dripping over the spot if possible, to wash away quickly the debris, and keep the paper clean, just enough until the Guide Coat is gone, check your work for low spots (where the Guide Coat is still there), fix that, and go on to the next section..

You will always feel the panel with your hand for imperfections and look for anything obvious, and then move on to the next section..

No one used those plastic bags - my lunch sandwich was in there instead.. :) If you close your eyes and feel the panel you will find way more things than a zillion plastic bags... To me, using that bag is like taking a shower with a raincoat... :)

In the end, you will have a very flat, smooth, surface to compound and polish out..

If you watch the guys on the Audi assembly line for example, they will feel the car in bare metal with a bare hand and fix any imperfections before it goes to the primer stage...

Back in those days of acrylic lacquer and enamels, we started the sanding process with 3M 400 or 600 grit wet or dry paper and water running over the panel the entire time, and went as high as the grit was invented, and the look that was required to match, at that time..

Then, a good compounding with a Rotary and all was beautifully clear, glossy and most importantly - FLAT -

The light reflection coming Straight back was indeed, Blinding in the sun so you could not look into it without sunglasses..

You will be fine, Don !
Dan F

[Stokdgs]

If they primered the car before painting it, the orange peel is most likely in the primer.

If they were a bunch of drunk clowns, they might be able to make primer orange peel.. :)

Besides, after primer, you guide coat the primer and block sand it all nice and flat because the Body Guys will have given you the gift of a zillion 40-80grit scratches, file marks, even through all the Bondo, so you have to knock those down, prime it alot, and block sand it to get all the panels straight as an arrow..
So, no chance to get orange peel in primer - well, except for Drunk Clowns Auto Body and Paint... :)
Dan F

[FIDOAG14]

If they were a bunch of drunk clowns, they might be able to make primer orange peel.. :)

Besides, after primer, you guide coat the primer and block sand it all nice and flat because the Body Guys will have given you the gift of a zillion 40-80grit scratches, file marks, even through all the Bondo, so you have to knock those down, prime it alot, and block sand it to get all the panels straight as an arrow..
So, no chance to get orange peel in primer - well, except for Drunk Clowns Auto Body and Paint... :)
Dan F
I`d agree with Dan, though I have seen a Drunk Clown Auto Body paint job from time to time. I`d be surprised if the orange peel was in the primer, more likely it`s under all that clear.

[top189h]

I just know when me and a buddy painted my dragster, we wet sanded the primer flat then did 3 coats of clear, wet sanded again, 2 more layers of clear then wet sanded and buffed, and it looks like glass, nothing I`ve ever seen out of the shop he or I work at, but the techs at our shop handle the final blocking so that may be a problem.

[Stokdgs]

I just know when me and a buddy painted my dragster, we wet sanded the primer flat then did 3 coats of clear, wet sanded again, 2 more layers of clear then wet sanded and buffed, and it looks like glass, nothing I`ve ever seen out of the shop he or I work at, but the techs at our shop handle the final blocking so that may be a problem.

Top189h -
Mi Amigo - what you just described above is about how Lexus used to and may still be doing to paint their cars..
That is why Lexus paint always looks so beautiful - and why they cost a bit more... :)

Love that story about your Dragster - it has to be the nicest looking one out there for sure !
Dan F

[top189h]

It`s up there I would say, we have over 30 hours in it, there are some where guys paint the rear ends, the cylinder heads, intake, transmission and everything, and I didn`t have the time or money to do all of that.

[FIDOAG14]

It`s up there I would say, we have over 30 hours in it, there are some where guys paint the rear ends, the cylinder heads, intake, transmission and everything, and I didn`t have the time or money to do all of that.

Have you posted pics of it before? Now I gotta see it...